Difference between revisions of "Talk:PortablePlayers"

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There are many more portable players by TrekStor than the i.beat 500 supporting ogg vorbis.
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== Discontinued players ==
 +
I think that discontinued players should be moved into a different section. Not necessarily removed, as many are still available on clearance/refurbished/used.
  
Please add products to the main page.
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The question is, how to make the split?  I see three possibilities:
 +
# Discontinued players on a separate page
 +
# same page, but separate top-level section.  e.g.:
 +
#* Current devices
 +
#** Flash-memory devices
 +
#** HD devices
 +
#** CD/DVD devices
 +
#* Discontinued devices
 +
#** Flash-memory devices
 +
#** HD devices
 +
#** CD/DVD devices
 +
# make a subsection within each section.  e.g.:
 +
#* Flash-memory devices
 +
#**Current devices
 +
#**Discontinued devices
 +
#* HD devices
 +
#**Current devices
 +
#**Discontinued devices
 +
#* CD/DVD devices
 +
#**Current devices
 +
#**Discontinued devices
  
 +
I'll hold off any updates right now, but I'll check back in a few days/weeks/whenever and see if there's any opinions here.  If there's no disagreement by then, and noone has beat me to it, I'll take the initiative. [[User:Bsammon|Bsammon]] 03:43, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
  
I would like to know which Players can '''record''' in OGG?! -- [[User:217.186.150.213|217.186.150.213]] 17:03, 26 Dec 2004 (PST)
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:Having sections for discontinued devices (on each subpage) is fine - but I suggest to avoid explicit ''Current devices'' sections. With a ''discontinued devices'' section on a page it is immediately clear that everything listed before is current.--[[User:Gsauthof|Gsauthof]] 10:09, 30 September 2011 (PDT)
  
== Pretec Allegro may need firmware update ==
+
== List of top five players ==
 +
It would be a good idea to have a few (five?) players at the top with images that are considered to be the best *recent* devices. I don't think any of the MP3 using masses will use this page to choose their next music player unless it lists recent devices, and presents a choice of five or six at the top, with images, and links to sites that they can buy them from. Also, could someone put up a notice to remind people it's not OGG, or Ogg! It's Ogg Vorbis, or if you must, Vorbis. - thehumanerror 25th December 2006
  
I recently purchased a Pretec Allegro, but was unable to play Oggs for three months, until the firmware update was made available on 14 or 15 March 2005. Now it works well! (So far, listening to -q3 Oggs). I'd hope that units purchased after this date already has the firmware update, but you never know. Installing the update is as simple as placing the .rom on the USB-storage-device media (eg flash disk), starting up the unit, and pressing the play button. -- Hugo van der Merwe
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I totally agree with the above. This page was next to useless for me when I was shopping for a Vorbis player since I was overwhelmed with choices. Add to that the fact that many products have been discontinued or cannot be bought new and there's a recipe for disaster. - erpo41 October 17th, 2007
: How much battery runtime do you get playing Oggs compared with playing mp3?  [[User:Phr|Phr]] 02:05, 27 Aug 2005 (PDT)
 
  
== Any player with SD-Cards ==
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I also agree with the above; the primary reason I am not using Ogg Vorbis (I keep a parallel collection of mp3 and flac files) is I cannot easily find a portable player.  I don't know that reorganizing this wiki page will help.  I did comb through this page; basically all of the  listed hard disk players are from one off manufacturers or not being manufactured any more.  There are plenty of nice flash storage based devices and cell phones (from Samsung and others), but that is not what I am looking for.  Also, I'm not interested in hacking my iPod.  (I do embedded linux development enough at work; I'll pay someone else to get my media player working).  Until this is addressed, Ogg Vorbis is going to remain out of use; which is a shame because for every other reason it is the best (in my opinion).  --Kevin Holzer, January 10, 2009
  
Every single ogg-capable portable player out there seems to come with built-in flash memory. Which is stupid, because I don't want to fire up my computer and plug in the player every time I get tired of the tracks on my player. Plus flash memory has a limited lifetime (write cycles) and so does your player with built-in memory. The same applies for built-in rechargable batteries.
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:Yes. This is a good idea.  Create a section at the top.  Polish it well. And perhaps add a free-licensed photo. Anyone up for it?--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 06:41, 17 October 2007 (PDT)
  
Now when would you ever need to buy your second device without any moving parts if you could just change flash memory and batteries? Ok, that's the industrie's point of view but not mine. I want to go on vacation with music and batteries for one week of non-stop music - without a power source or computer nearby.
+
I would rather see just a simple feature matrix (sorted so that unavailable devices are listed at the bottom, or just not listed at all). See talk below. Maybe preferred choises could be raised to the top thought! I agree that current list is quite unusable.
  
So, any hint to where I might find a portable audio player that can play back ogg vorbis files and uses SD flash cards (and preferably AAA-batteries) would be greatly appreciated.
+
:As of now, the page contains a feature matrix, which only lists current and available devices. Thus, when you check this page out for buying advice it should be more useful now, i.e. it has no overwhelming effect anymore. I consider the raised issues as '''done'''. --[[User:Gsauthof|Gsauthof]] 10:04, 30 September 2011 (PDT)
* Me too! If the [http://enox.co.kr/2004/eng/product/product_830_01.asp Enox EMX-830] took SD cards it'd be perfect. --[[User:Rgm|rgm]] 14:41, 7 Nov 2005 (PST)
 
  
----
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== Recording in Vorbis ==
  
The Pretec Allegro is not the slickest player out there, it's LCD backlight seems to give off a high-pitched whine, which not everyone can hear (it kind-of screams in my ears though, so I put the backlight timer on 1 second so it doesn't scream too long). It is, however, the only one I now know of that can play Oggs, and uses removable media. If you want a nicely portable device, you have to use Pretec's "iDisk tiny" usb flash disk, the only thing that will fit inside. You can also, however, connect some USB SD-card reader with it's cable, then listen to Oggs off of SD. A little unwieldy, but, it works, and is the only thing *I* know of. (I stopped following developments in December though, when I bought it...)
+
I would like to know which Players can '''record''' in Vorbis?! -- [[User:217.186.150.213|217.186.150.213]] 17:03, 26 Dec 2004 (PST)
  
== Samsung's Yepp Ogg Vorbis support ==
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:Ditto. Absolutely vital information. Do any of the players listed also record in Vorbis? If anyone has experience with A player, please state specifically whether it does or does not record in Vorbis.[[User:Nickhill|Nickhill]] 15:04, 4 June 2006 (PDT)
  
JoshuaRodman wrote regarding the yp-t7z:
+
::Never heard of one that does, and there isn't a fixed point reference encoder, which makes it unlikely.
:I received such a unit.  It plays oggs encodd at -q 4, 5 and 6 without error that I have noticed.  However it seems underdocumented.  It plays the files in an order which is neither alpha sorted nor numeric sorted, and it does not support ogg tags. -- JoshuaRodman (March 28, 2005)
 
:I've investigated more.  Some music encoded at even -q 5 will break up or cause difficulty.  I suspect these pieces have bitrate spikes.  As for the ordering, the YP-T7 plays files in 'readdir' order.  That is it does not sort the files out of the filesystem at all. In practice, this means it will play the files in the order that you add them to the directory.  If you are a windows user dragging and dropping the files onto the player, this problem will not affect you.  A linux or possible Mac user may need to do minor scripting to alleviate this issue. --JoshuaRodman (April 13, 2005)
 
  
Spaz added for the YP-T7Z:
+
== Pretec Allegro may need firmware update ==
:After using the newest firmware I have had no issues playing OGG files. Any lockup or playback issues I had experienced went away. --Spaz (Dec 23, 2005)
 
  
Ulrich added for the YP-MT6Z:
+
I recently purchased a Pretec Allegro, but was unable to play Oggs for three months, until the firmware update was made available on 14 or 15 March 2005. Now it works well! (So far, listening to -q3 Oggs). I'd hope that units purchased after this date already has the firmware update, but you never know. Installing the update is as simple as placing the .rom on the USB-storage-device media (eg flash disk), starting up the unit, and pressing the play button. -- Hugo van der Merwe
:I think my manual says the first 8 characters of a filename are considered for sorting. As my files have the "tracknumber" tag, I wrote some Perl script that prepends that number (two digits plus a space) to the track names when being copied onto the player. I'm not sure about decoding problems, but there may be some. I encoded my files at q6 or higher using "oggenc" from Linux. Tags for title and performer are displayed unless you follow the Vorbis specification to create one tag for each performer. However, be aware that default settings have tag display disabled!
+
: How much battery runtime do you get playing Oggs compared with playing mp3?  [[User:Phr|Phr]] 02:05, 27 Aug 2005 (PDT)
  
:The chip inside seems to be a Sigmatel STMP3400M, natively specified for MP3 with addon codecs.
+
== Any player with Removable Memory Cards ==
  
:It would be great of Samsung Europe would release firmware with release notes (the Korean site has newer firmware, but no English, really!). There's also some inoffical newer firmware around, but also without any release notes. Official firmware is 2.122 (on my player as delivered and on CD and website).
+
The NexBlack (see [[PortablePlayers]] ) has removable compact flash and batteries.
  
:Recently I decided to remove some Ogg files from the player and add a few new ones. Unfortunately this resulted in some directories (usually structured as <artist>/<album>/<track-number> <track-title>) being unplayable. There's just a message saying "No Entry". Interestingly this happens with directories that did play before removing some files. Newer firmware didn't change anything about that. I suspect that this is caused by either 1) special characters in the file names (I use UTF-8 encoding), 2) special characters in the Vorbis comment, 3) length of file names, 4) number of files in the file system, or 5) amount of free space (my player has just 90kB free now). One symptom is that in Settings->System->About there are fewer files counted than actually exist in the filesystem. And yes, I've checked the filesystem several times. I have contacted German support, and they replied they'll investigate, but they did not ask back about any details (and support doesn't allow to reply).
+
Every single Vorbis-capable portable player out there seems to come with built-in flash memory. Which is stupid, because I don't want to fire up my computer and plug in the player every time I get tired of the tracks on my player. Plus flash memory has a limited lifetime (write cycles) and so does your player with built-in memory. The same applies for built-in rechargable batteries.  
  
:With the new inofficial firmware 2.290 I had a few crashes: The player was playing a continuous tone, and the only way to stop it was to remove the battiery for a moment. However as the effect was not repeatable when playing the same file, I can believe that some mobile phone triggered that. The other thing is the fact that my player came without FM radio. The newer firmware has the radio item in firmware, but as soon as I select it, the player will hang until the battery is removed. OK, that's inofficial firmware...
+
Now when would you ever need to buy your second device without any moving parts if you could just change flash memory and batteries? Ok, that's the industrie's point of view but not mine. I want to go on vacation with music and batteries for one week of non-stop music - without a power source or computer nearby.
--(Ulrich on 2006-02-02)
 
  
::Two questions: 1) are ogg tags not being displayed even when the Tag option is toggle to On in the settings menu? 2) how does it handle -q 4 and -q 6 &mdash; is it just -q 5, or is it -q 5 and higher/lower? &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Saxifrage|Saxifrage]] 01:07, 14 Apr 2005 (PDT)
+
So, any hint to where I might find a portable audio player that can play back ogg vorbis files and uses SD flash cards (and preferably AAA-batteries) would be greatly appreciated.
 +
* Me too! If the [http://enox.co.kr/2004/eng/product/product_830_01.asp Enox EMX-830] took SD cards it'd be perfect. --[[User:Rgm|rgm]] 14:41, 7 Nov 2005 (PST)
  
:::I have seen no evidence of vorbis tags being supported; they are not displayed.  I have generally encoded at -q 5 as an attempt to stay inside the "supported" bitrate boundaries. I find that the bitrate and breakups are not directly correlated, but somewhat related. This is no surprise if the problem is CPU time exhaustion.  I have not found any particular quality encoding to fail either reliably or often.  In general, speeds above the stated maximum supported bitrates have seemed to work fine.  No lockups of any kind have been encountered. Incidentally, over 90% of my ogg files have been processed by vorbisgain. --JoshuaRodman (July 5, 2005)
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* SanDisk Sansa e250/e260/e270/e280 has a microSD-card slot. With ROCKbox it plays Ogg/Vorbis and more.[[User:Nostromo|Nostromo]] 15:26, 29 October 2007 (PDT)
  
  
I just bought one of these and I'm baffled by its erratic Ogg support. Firmware version 1.541 seems to support tags just fine, though I haven't noticed the alpha-sorting issue (haven't looked). However, I find that it can't play all my Ogg files (freezes when it tries to load the file), and there's nothing systematic that I've found to account for this. It plays some files I encoded [[Jan 29]]-[[Jan 30]], [[2005]], but there are files that don't work before and after that date. The files that work so far were encoded with nominal bitrates of 128 and 192, while others that don't work were at 160. All encodings have used the same program (Grip under Linux). Ogg files that I've encoded with oggenc directly for testing purposes at 160 nominal bitrate work just fine. There's just something about most of my existing files.
+
----
  
I've emailed a support request to Samsung Canada, so I'll report what I find out then. Meanwhile I'm doing a bunch of rips with Grip to test different nominal bitrates. [[User:Saxifrage|Saxifrage]] 10:53, 12 Apr 2005 (PDT)
+
The Pretec Allegro is not the slickest player out there, it's LCD backlight seems to give off a high-pitched whine, which not everyone can hear (it kind-of screams in my ears though, so I put the backlight timer on 1 second so it doesn't scream too long). It is, however, the only one I now know of that can play Oggs, and uses removable media. If you want a nicely portable device, you have to use Pretec's "iDisk tiny" usb flash disk, the only thing that will fit inside. You can also, however, connect some USB SD-card reader with it's cable, then listen to Oggs off of SD. A little unwieldy, but, it works, and is the only thing *I* know of. (I stopped following developments in December though, when I bought it...)
 
 
:Results from my experiments with different nominal bitrates are summarised in this table:
 
{| align=center border=1
 
|+YP-T6 Ogg Vorbis support
 
|-
 
! &nbsp; !! Tags
 
| none || tag* || tag + replaygain || replaygain
 
|-
 
!Bitrate (nominal) || &nbsp; || &nbsp; || &nbsp; || &nbsp; || &nbsp;
 
|-
 
| 128
 
| &nbsp; || works || works || works || ?
 
|-
 
| 160
 
| &nbsp; || works || works || '''freezes''' || works
 
|-
 
| 192
 
| &nbsp; || works || works || works || ?
 
|}
 
:<nowiki>* </nowiki>"tag" means just the regular complement of artist, album, title, year, and genre.
 
:"?" indicates that the case was not tested
 
 
 
:My conclusion is that the Samsung YP-T6 can't handle Ogg Vorbis files encoded at 160 nominal bitrate if [[Wikipedia:ReplayGain|ReplayGain]] tags are applied to the file. Note too that I tested a file without real RG tags, but with the normal tags plus tags with different names than the standard RG tags but with the same name-length and same length of arguments; this was to isolate whether it was a ReplayGain-specific bug or a general tag-handling bug. Thus, I suspect that the problem is a buffer overflow in tag code of the firmware. '''Note''' that I have only tested files encoded with nominal bitrates, not files encoded with oggenc's quality settings.
 
:The few files in my collection that have worked were encoded at different bitrates (either 128 or 192), but unfortunately the vast majority are 160, and I need ReplayGain to be able to listen to my collection on the PC without constantly changing the volume. As a workaround I may write a script to strip the ReplayGain tags as they're moved to my player, but this rather sucks. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Saxifrage|Saxifrage]] 12:36, 12 Apr 2005 (PDT)
 
 
 
=== Yepp YP-T7JZ/T7JX ===
 
 
 
Samsung appears to have model bumped the yp-t7 series with the yp-t7j series.  The spec sheet does not mention OGG/Vorbis as a supported file format.  This seems a real shame as the t7 worked well.  Does anyone have anything more conclusive? [[User:JoshuaRodman|JoshuaRodman]] 08:26, 6 January 2006 (PST)
 
 
 
=== Yepp MT-6X ===
 
 
 
:I ([[User:Gav|Gav]]) own a Yepp MT-6X and I don't come to the same conclusions.  I tried to remove the Gain tags and it didn't improve anything. Here are some tests I made :
 
 
 
{| align=center border=1
 
|+YP-MT6X Ogg Vorbis support
 
|-
 
! Encoder version || Filename || Nominal bitrate || Playback test
 
|-
 
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20000508 (1.0 beta 1 or beta 2) || 01 - In Tenebris.ogg || unset (160 kbps) || KO
 
|-
 
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20001031 (1.0 beta 3) || 01 - A Day Without Rain.ogg || 160 kbps || KO
 
|-
 
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20010225 (1.0 beta 4) || 01 - Sunday Bloody Sunday.ogg || 128 kbps || KO
 
|-
 
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20010615 (1.0 rc1) || 01 - Remede.ogg || 128 kbps || KO
 
|-
 
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20010813 (1.0 rc2) || 01 - Devil's Haircut.ogg || 192 kbps || OK
 
|-
 
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20011231 (1.0 rc3) || 01 - Encore Une Chance.ogg || 112 kbps || OK
 
|-
 
|Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20020717 (1.0) || 01 - Inferno (Unleash The Fire).ogg || 160 kbps || KO
 
|-
 
|Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20030909 (1.0.1) || 01 - You Will Be a Hot Dancer.ogg || 128 kbps || OK
 
|-
 
|}
 
 
 
Yes, a 1.0 file fails...  I also tested a 8 second file encoded at q1,q2,...,q10 using 20020717 (1.0) and it worked for every quality !  So not every 1.0-encoded file fails. See [[YeppGavDetails]] for details about the files.
 
 
 
: OK.  I've done extensive tests and I can confirm what Saxifrage suggested : there is indeed a buffer overflow in the tag handling !  When the framing bit of the tag header is at offset >= 0x18C, it fails. If it is at exactly 0x18C, it reboots or freezes.  If it is at offset > 0x18C, it always freezes.  This was tested with firmware 1.101 and vorbis encoder 1.0.
 
 
 
: The file encoded using libVorbis 1.0 in the table above has a too large tag and that's why it fails.
 
 
 
: In summary, the Yepp can only play Vorbis when it is encoded with libVorbis version >= 1.0rc2 AND when the framing bit of the tag header is at offset < 0x18C.
 
 
 
=== Yepp YP-T6 ===
 
  
I've got this model with 256MB of flash memory, and unlike above, I ran into problems when I tried to play very-low-bitrate files (< 64kbps, CD format). I encoded them using [http://www.geocities.jp/aoyoume/aotuv/index.html aoTuV-beta4] experiment version from aoyumi (which creates (or should create) perfectly standard and conforming files), using command-line oggenc under linux. The qualities I used for these problematic files are -q-1 (~45kbps) and -q-2 (~32kbps), and when the player tries to open the file it freezes, but for qualities from -q0 it works perfectly.
+
== Samsung / Yepp ==
  
Apart from that, I've had no real problem before, using mostly -q6 files from RC3 and 1.0, without tags or with standard ones. Sometimes the sound is distorted a lot for a few tenths of seconds, it seems to be related to bitrate peaks (applauds, etc.).
+
Moved to [[Talk:PortablePlayersSamsungYepp]]
 
 
Hope this will be useful, anyway thanks for the investigations on this player, I also realized the lack of information on this player's ogg support. [[User:Superdupont|Superdupont]] 16:49, 2 Aug 2005 (PDT)
 
 
 
Edit: firmware version: 1.543
 
 
 
The YP-T6 seems to be almost identical to the Trekstor i.Beat Cube.
 
 
 
The YP-T6s sold in the US sports an FM Radio with 16 saved settings and automatic station search. Recording from a radio program to MP3 is possible. At least the German version of the YP-T6 does not have an built-in tuner.
 
 
 
The German web site has moved it from from "MP3 players" to the [http://av.samsung.de/subtype_tva_audiop_mp3_archiv.asp Archived MP3 players] section, while the [http://www.samsung.com/Products/DigitalAudioPlayer/MP3Players/YP_T6ZXAA.asp US] and [http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/digitalaudioplayer/flashmemory/index.asp UK] site lists it as regular model. I don't know if this indicates that Samsung is about to stop production of the T6 or if there have been problems on the German market (like restrictive radio emission laws, see built-in tuner section above).
 
 
 
=== Yepp YP-53 ===
 
 
 
I'am not sure what's inside this player. May be it's a STMP3505. With firmware 1.200 it plays Ogg Vorbis, but not at very low bitrates(-q-1 and -q-2).[[User:nostromo|nostromo]] 4 Nov 2005.
 
 
 
Firmware 1.200 is a bit difficult to find, googling by file name (YP-53_V1.200.zip) gets a single relevant result: [http://bluetek.co.kr/service/guide/driver_view.asp?idx=110&tbl_name=download_kr&page=3&qtype=model&query= Korean page with a link to the updater]. If it disappears, contact me ([[User:inejge|inejge]]) via this site ('''E-mail this user''' on the linked page).
 
 
 
The new firmware is much nicer than the previous release (my player came with V1.024):
 
* It plays OGGs, starting with -q0.
 
* The main screen is better organized.
 
* Menus are cleaned up (and with more eye candy).
 
* Non-ASCII characters in tags are displayed properly (tested with OGG).
 
 
 
'''Note:''' if you are encoding OGGs at -q0, ''don't'' try to set the lower bitrate limit to 64 kb/s -- the player can choke on managed bitrate files. Nominal bitrate is all that counts.
 
 
 
--[[User:Inejge|Inejge]] 06:32, 12 Dec 2005 (PST)
 
 
 
 
 
=== Yepp YP-U1 ===
 
'''Firmware 2.242:''' Plays Vorbis OK with tag support. Tested with aoTuV beta 4.51 and Xiph.org Vorbis between -q2 and -q8 (mostly at -q5; manual claims support from -q0 to -q10), no lockups so far. Experienced unusual distortion at one point of a particular track (loud, percussive synthetic "thunderclap") at -q5, decreasing with increasing -q value; this appears to be caused by a spike in bitrate, solved by passing encoding options
 
--managed -b160 -M192
 
--[[User:Ettlz|Ettlz]] 07:35, 25 January 2006 (PST)
 
  
 
== UniBrain iZak ==
 
== UniBrain iZak ==
Line 161: Line 82:
 
The UniBrain iZak was added, then removed recently, with the comment that it doesn't claim to play Ogg Vorbis.
 
The UniBrain iZak was added, then removed recently, with the comment that it doesn't claim to play Ogg Vorbis.
  
The FAQ is available here: [http://www.unibrain.com/support/iZak/iZak_FAQ.htm iZak FAQ] and Question/Answer 22 says:
+
The FAQ is available here: [http://www.unibrain.com/support/FAQ_iZak.htm iZak FAQ] and Question/Answer 24 says:
  
 
'22. Can iZak™ support OGG audio files?
 
'22. Can iZak™ support OGG audio files?
Line 173: Line 94:
 
== Entempo Spirit ==
 
== Entempo Spirit ==
  
This inexpensive player from [http://www.entempo.com/ Entempo] lists Ogg as a "Supported Audio Format", but the device will not index the Ogg files into it's menus -- let alone play the files.  Tested with both the stock and most recent firmware, May 29, 2005.  Vendor has been contacted.
+
This inexpensive player from Entempo had listed Vorbis as a "Supported Audio Format", but the device will not index the Vorbis files into it's menus -- let alone play the files.  Tested with both the stock and most recent firmware, May 29, 2005.  Vendor had been contacted and removed Vorbis support claims from their website, but has not provided any resolution to customers which purchased the product expecting this support.  The company's webpage has disappeared as of Feb 2006.
  
 
== Lexar LDP-800 dropped ==
 
== Lexar LDP-800 dropped ==
Line 188: Line 109:
 
== Hong Kong Dream-tech Electronic DT-202, works? please confirm ==
 
== Hong Kong Dream-tech Electronic DT-202, works? please confirm ==
 
http://hkdream-tech.com
 
http://hkdream-tech.com
An ebay seller says that it can reproduce OGG. This is unconfirmed. In the manufacturer web it says: MP3, WMA, WAV, DMV and etc.  
+
An ebay seller says that it can reproduce Vorbis. This is unconfirmed. In the manufacturer web it says: MP3, WMA, WAV, DMV and etc.  
  
 
Some webpage also says that it works on Windows, Mac and Linux. Also unconfirmed.
 
Some webpage also says that it works on Windows, Mac and Linux. Also unconfirmed.
Line 194: Line 115:
  
 
== Trekstor i.Beat Cube ==
 
== Trekstor i.Beat Cube ==
This player seems to be very similar to the Samsung Yepp YP-T6, possibly with the [[#Yepp_MT-6X|same problems]] regarding Ogg playback. Trekstor has moved [http://www.trekstor.de/en/produkte/mp3-player/ibeat-cube.html info about this player] from "MP3-Player" to the "Archive" section which propably means that it is not produced anymore.
+
This player seems to be very similar to the Samsung Yepp YP-T6, possibly with the [[#Yepp_MT-6X|same problems]] regarding Vorbis playback. Trekstor has moved [http://www.trekstor.de/en/produkte/mp3-player/ibeat-cube.html info about this player] from "MP3-Player" to the "Archive" section which propably means that it is not produced anymore.
  
== The Muzio jm300 / jm-300 does NOT play ogg ==
+
== The Muzio jm300 / jm-300 does NOT play Vorbis ==
  
 
NB this is the jm-300 (not 100 or 200)
 
NB this is the jm-300 (not 100 or 200)
  
I bought this a month ago. I've been unable to play ogg files on
+
I bought this a month ago. I've been unable to play Vorbis files on
 
it. It simply shows these as 'etc' files and skips over them.
 
it. It simply shows these as 'etc' files and skips over them.
  
Line 209: Line 130:
 
help think I've juts missed something basic.
 
help think I've juts missed something basic.
  
== Layout of the PortablePlayers list ==
+
== Layout of the PortablePlayers list and Feature matrix ==
 +
It's gone!  I've moved this discussion to [[Talk:PortablePlayersv2]]. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 10:55, 18 November 2006 (PST)
 +
 
 +
:Is there something very wrong with those proposals? I mean, is there any reason why (even a simple) feature matrix just could not be applied right now? It would probably solve 'list of top 5 players' problem above too. Just list something basic from the main features, name, size, weight, price, battery (internal, aa, aaa, ..), capasity, flash card type (sd, microsd, ..) , availability (current or discontinued), supported formats, charging (usb or propietary or none). Link to the longer comments. No complicated sorting or anything too fancy. No icons. Name can be a abbreviation to save space, use it as a link to current comments.
 +
 
 +
::As of now I consider this as '''done'''. --[[User:Gsauthof|Gsauthof]] 10:14, 30 September 2011 (PDT)
 +
 
 +
== NEXBlack out ==
 +
 
 +
I got my NEXBlack player today from Frontier Labs. It is a nice gadget with sleek design. They have corrected the occasional snap-sounds that came between tracks and it is overall more usable now. Vorbis-files also play fine, but the current firmware doesn't have Vorbis-tag reader, which is somewhat major drawback. The music selection works through mp3-tags and you can select by album, artist, genre and playlist, but since Vorbis tags won't work you have to select "unordered" to play them. Vorbis-files are all listed in one big list. I hope they either implement a Vorbis-tag reader or revert to old Nex IIe system where you could select by folder in the flash disc. But for the cheap price ($89), it is a good player... waiting for a new firmware..
 +
 
 +
== Sumvision M18/S1 ==
 +
 
 +
I've just got the 2GB Sumvision and it plays the OGG files I've tested so far. Should I add it to the list? [[User:Steevc|Steevc]] 04:05, 19 April 2007 (PDT)
 +
:Yes, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Be_bold just do it :)]. --[[User:Gsauthof|Gsauthof]] 10:18, 30 September 2011 (PDT)
 +
 
 +
== Humble A2 Review ==
 +
 
 +
Just a blog link [http://www.personal.psu.edu/gsc127/blogs/2007/10/happiness-with-cowon-a2.html to my review of the the Cowon A2].  Thanks, [[User:GChriss|GChriss]] 13:23, 6 November 2007 (PST)
 +
 
 +
== iRiver e100 ==
  
Wouldn't this list be easier to read if there was a seperate heading for each product, sorted by manufacturer? --[[User:Blenda|Blenda]] 09:13, 11 January 2006 (PST)
+
[http://reviews.cnet.com/4566-6490_7-0.html?filter=1000036_5260177_ CNet] and [http://www.amazon.com/iRiver-E100-Multimedia-Player-White/dp/B00171UYYS/ref=pd_bbs_sr_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1208253617&sr=8-5 Amazon] are saying the iRiver e100 supports Vorbis.  I haven't tested it myself. [[User:Mattflaschen|Mattflaschen]] 03:09, 15 April 2008 (PDT)
  
: There'd be a ''lot'' of entries then, I like the idea of a table format as suggested by G Markham on the Vorbis list recently (cut and pasted below). Although I think providing links to suppliers for each device and trying to maintain up-to-date availability is going too far.
+
== Bought an vorbis-enabled player recently? Tell us where! ==
: [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 09:19, 24 February 2006 (PST)
 
  
::Make it a table - or rather, four tables, for each combination of flash/hard disk and current/historical, with historical data below current. Split it up by model, not just by manufacturer - one manufacturer can have many different models with widely differing feature sets. Provide a link to the manufacturer's product page for each model, and either a table-based or a freeform list of commonly-sought features (microphone, radio, capacity, other formats). Provide details of which countries a player can be purchased in and, if it's not commonly available, details of how to find it in major markets (US, Europe).
+
I have started a page that should allow people easier purchasing of vorbis-enabled players: [[PortablePlayers_per_Place]]
  
::I want to be able to come to the page (as I tried to recently) and say "I need a flash-based player with a built-in USB connector and a mic, available in Europe", and find which models I should be googling for without difficulty.
+
Everyone, who bought an vorbis-enabled player recently should update the page with place and model.
::Gervase Markham on vorbis mailing list, inserted by [[User:Imalone|Imalone]]
 
  
: Here's a quick attempt I put together:
+
== Move Flash/HD-sections to dedicated pages ==
  
:{| border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" style="width:100%;" align="left"
+
Hi,
|+ style="text-align: left;" | '''[http://www.iaudio.com iAudio]'''
 
! width="15%" | Model
 
! width="15%" | Storage type
 
! width=" 3%" | Capacity
 
! width=" 3%" | UMS Device
 
! width=" 3%" | Needs firmware update
 
! width="15%" | Power
 
! width=" 3%" | Line-in
 
! width=" 3%" | Mic
 
! width=" 3%" | Radio
 
! width="15%" | Other formats
 
! width="22%" | Comments
 
|- align="center"
 
| '''G3'''
 
| Flash (builtin)
 
| 256MB, 512MB, 1GB
 
| bgcolor="green" | '''x'''
 
| bgcolor="red" |
 
| AA battery
 
| bgcolor="green" | '''x'''
 
| bgcolor="green" | '''x'''
 
| bgcolor="green" | '''x'''
 
| MP3, MP2, Ogg, WMA, ASF and WAV
 
| Very white, available from online retailers in UK
 
|}
 
  
: Obviously templates would be of some use here&mdash;someone more wiki-wise than me want to suggest something? Also those check boxes, I had a quick look but haven't got a way to do them that looks good (again, if you could come up with some convoluted solution, then it could be templated for convenience). Perhaps little icons might be easier for a few things like batteries, capacity, memory type where there tends to be a limited number of common choices.
+
IMHO the PortablePlayers page is too long. I want to split it into several pages for each main section. Like [[PortablePlayers/Flash]], [[PortablePlayers/Harddisk]] etc.. Sure, one have to fix some links then, but I am convinced this step would increase the usability a lot.
: [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 09:56, 24 February 2006 (PST)
+
What do you think about that? --[[User:Gsauthof|Gsauthof]] 01:20, 31 March 2009 (PDT)
  
: On reflection, column 5 should be 'without firmware update' (or a less confusing text), because then support without firmware update would be green and green is good (or at least consistent).  Left red above so you can see the contrast until someone does a less fully featured player. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 17:23, 24 February 2006 (PST)
+
:Since there were no objections I restructured the page as planned. --[[User:Gsauthof|Gsauthof]] 10:07, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 07:05, 16 December 2011

Discontinued players

I think that discontinued players should be moved into a different section. Not necessarily removed, as many are still available on clearance/refurbished/used.

The question is, how to make the split? I see three possibilities:

  1. Discontinued players on a separate page
  2. same page, but separate top-level section. e.g.:
    • Current devices
      • Flash-memory devices
      • HD devices
      • CD/DVD devices
    • Discontinued devices
      • Flash-memory devices
      • HD devices
      • CD/DVD devices
  3. make a subsection within each section. e.g.:
    • Flash-memory devices
      • Current devices
      • Discontinued devices
    • HD devices
      • Current devices
      • Discontinued devices
    • CD/DVD devices
      • Current devices
      • Discontinued devices

I'll hold off any updates right now, but I'll check back in a few days/weeks/whenever and see if there's any opinions here. If there's no disagreement by then, and noone has beat me to it, I'll take the initiative. Bsammon 03:43, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Having sections for discontinued devices (on each subpage) is fine - but I suggest to avoid explicit Current devices sections. With a discontinued devices section on a page it is immediately clear that everything listed before is current.--Gsauthof 10:09, 30 September 2011 (PDT)

List of top five players

It would be a good idea to have a few (five?) players at the top with images that are considered to be the best *recent* devices. I don't think any of the MP3 using masses will use this page to choose their next music player unless it lists recent devices, and presents a choice of five or six at the top, with images, and links to sites that they can buy them from. Also, could someone put up a notice to remind people it's not OGG, or Ogg! It's Ogg Vorbis, or if you must, Vorbis. - thehumanerror 25th December 2006

I totally agree with the above. This page was next to useless for me when I was shopping for a Vorbis player since I was overwhelmed with choices. Add to that the fact that many products have been discontinued or cannot be bought new and there's a recipe for disaster. - erpo41 October 17th, 2007

I also agree with the above; the primary reason I am not using Ogg Vorbis (I keep a parallel collection of mp3 and flac files) is I cannot easily find a portable player. I don't know that reorganizing this wiki page will help. I did comb through this page; basically all of the listed hard disk players are from one off manufacturers or not being manufactured any more. There are plenty of nice flash storage based devices and cell phones (from Samsung and others), but that is not what I am looking for. Also, I'm not interested in hacking my iPod. (I do embedded linux development enough at work; I'll pay someone else to get my media player working). Until this is addressed, Ogg Vorbis is going to remain out of use; which is a shame because for every other reason it is the best (in my opinion). --Kevin Holzer, January 10, 2009

Yes. This is a good idea. Create a section at the top. Polish it well. And perhaps add a free-licensed photo. Anyone up for it?--Ivo 06:41, 17 October 2007 (PDT)

I would rather see just a simple feature matrix (sorted so that unavailable devices are listed at the bottom, or just not listed at all). See talk below. Maybe preferred choises could be raised to the top thought! I agree that current list is quite unusable.

As of now, the page contains a feature matrix, which only lists current and available devices. Thus, when you check this page out for buying advice it should be more useful now, i.e. it has no overwhelming effect anymore. I consider the raised issues as done. --Gsauthof 10:04, 30 September 2011 (PDT)

Recording in Vorbis

I would like to know which Players can record in Vorbis?! -- 217.186.150.213 17:03, 26 Dec 2004 (PST)

Ditto. Absolutely vital information. Do any of the players listed also record in Vorbis? If anyone has experience with A player, please state specifically whether it does or does not record in Vorbis.Nickhill 15:04, 4 June 2006 (PDT)
Never heard of one that does, and there isn't a fixed point reference encoder, which makes it unlikely.

Pretec Allegro may need firmware update

I recently purchased a Pretec Allegro, but was unable to play Oggs for three months, until the firmware update was made available on 14 or 15 March 2005. Now it works well! (So far, listening to -q3 Oggs). I'd hope that units purchased after this date already has the firmware update, but you never know. Installing the update is as simple as placing the .rom on the USB-storage-device media (eg flash disk), starting up the unit, and pressing the play button. -- Hugo van der Merwe

How much battery runtime do you get playing Oggs compared with playing mp3? Phr 02:05, 27 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Any player with Removable Memory Cards

The NexBlack (see PortablePlayers ) has removable compact flash and batteries.

Every single Vorbis-capable portable player out there seems to come with built-in flash memory. Which is stupid, because I don't want to fire up my computer and plug in the player every time I get tired of the tracks on my player. Plus flash memory has a limited lifetime (write cycles) and so does your player with built-in memory. The same applies for built-in rechargable batteries.

Now when would you ever need to buy your second device without any moving parts if you could just change flash memory and batteries? Ok, that's the industrie's point of view but not mine. I want to go on vacation with music and batteries for one week of non-stop music - without a power source or computer nearby.

So, any hint to where I might find a portable audio player that can play back ogg vorbis files and uses SD flash cards (and preferably AAA-batteries) would be greatly appreciated.

  • Me too! If the Enox EMX-830 took SD cards it'd be perfect. --rgm 14:41, 7 Nov 2005 (PST)
  • SanDisk Sansa e250/e260/e270/e280 has a microSD-card slot. With ROCKbox it plays Ogg/Vorbis and more.Nostromo 15:26, 29 October 2007 (PDT)



The Pretec Allegro is not the slickest player out there, it's LCD backlight seems to give off a high-pitched whine, which not everyone can hear (it kind-of screams in my ears though, so I put the backlight timer on 1 second so it doesn't scream too long). It is, however, the only one I now know of that can play Oggs, and uses removable media. If you want a nicely portable device, you have to use Pretec's "iDisk tiny" usb flash disk, the only thing that will fit inside. You can also, however, connect some USB SD-card reader with it's cable, then listen to Oggs off of SD. A little unwieldy, but, it works, and is the only thing *I* know of. (I stopped following developments in December though, when I bought it...)

Samsung / Yepp

Moved to Talk:PortablePlayersSamsungYepp

UniBrain iZak

Apologies if this is the wrong place for this; I'm new to wikis.

The UniBrain iZak was added, then removed recently, with the comment that it doesn't claim to play Ogg Vorbis.

The FAQ is available here: iZak FAQ and Question/Answer 24 says:

'22. Can iZak™ support OGG audio files?

Yes, iZak™ fully supports OGG playback using the latest firmware.'

I was the one that removed it. In their specs linked from the main page, I saw that they listed only MP3 and WMA support for music formats. Obviously they need to update their promotional material! I went ahead and added the iZak back in, making a point to mention that the most current version of the firmware now supports Ogg Vorbis and linking to their FAQ as evidence. Saxifrage 02:36, 5 May 2005 (PDT)
Splendid. I didn't want to just stick it back after it had been taken out.--Ipl 05:14, 5 May 2005 (PDT)

Entempo Spirit

This inexpensive player from Entempo had listed Vorbis as a "Supported Audio Format", but the device will not index the Vorbis files into it's menus -- let alone play the files. Tested with both the stock and most recent firmware, May 29, 2005. Vendor had been contacted and removed Vorbis support claims from their website, but has not provided any resolution to customers which purchased the product expecting this support. The company's webpage has disappeared as of Feb 2006.

Lexar LDP-800 dropped

It seems that Lexar have abondoned the LDP-800. The following was posted by a user on dapreview.net " Unfortunately, lexar will not offer the LDP-800, but will focus instead on its existing LDP Players that already offer appealing features and benefits to meet a variety of consumer needs." Shame.--Ipl 06:15, 22 Jul 2005 (PDT)

There's more info on that dapreview thread that indicates some confusion within Lexar. Currently, it looks like the release is going to happen in early September.

Update 2005-11-11: after inquiries to Lexar's "new products" personnel, I received a telephone message that the LDP-800 will definitely "is not going to see the light of day." Ask me if you want details. I agree that it's a shame since this looked to be an outstanding product. --dfavro

Hong Kong Dream-tech Electronic DT-202, works? please confirm

http://hkdream-tech.com An ebay seller says that it can reproduce Vorbis. This is unconfirmed. In the manufacturer web it says: MP3, WMA, WAV, DMV and etc.

Some webpage also says that it works on Windows, Mac and Linux. Also unconfirmed. Further investigation required.

Trekstor i.Beat Cube

This player seems to be very similar to the Samsung Yepp YP-T6, possibly with the same problems regarding Vorbis playback. Trekstor has moved info about this player from "MP3-Player" to the "Archive" section which propably means that it is not produced anymore.

The Muzio jm300 / jm-300 does NOT play Vorbis

NB this is the jm-300 (not 100 or 200)

I bought this a month ago. I've been unable to play Vorbis files on it. It simply shows these as 'etc' files and skips over them.

Pitty really, this was the main reason I chose this player.

I've seen lots of discussion about the muzio playing oggs, is there anybody there who owns a jm300 and is actually playing oggs ? I can't help think I've juts missed something basic.

Layout of the PortablePlayers list and Feature matrix

It's gone! I've moved this discussion to Talk:PortablePlayersv2. Imalone 10:55, 18 November 2006 (PST)

Is there something very wrong with those proposals? I mean, is there any reason why (even a simple) feature matrix just could not be applied right now? It would probably solve 'list of top 5 players' problem above too. Just list something basic from the main features, name, size, weight, price, battery (internal, aa, aaa, ..), capasity, flash card type (sd, microsd, ..) , availability (current or discontinued), supported formats, charging (usb or propietary or none). Link to the longer comments. No complicated sorting or anything too fancy. No icons. Name can be a abbreviation to save space, use it as a link to current comments.
As of now I consider this as done. --Gsauthof 10:14, 30 September 2011 (PDT)

NEXBlack out

I got my NEXBlack player today from Frontier Labs. It is a nice gadget with sleek design. They have corrected the occasional snap-sounds that came between tracks and it is overall more usable now. Vorbis-files also play fine, but the current firmware doesn't have Vorbis-tag reader, which is somewhat major drawback. The music selection works through mp3-tags and you can select by album, artist, genre and playlist, but since Vorbis tags won't work you have to select "unordered" to play them. Vorbis-files are all listed in one big list. I hope they either implement a Vorbis-tag reader or revert to old Nex IIe system where you could select by folder in the flash disc. But for the cheap price ($89), it is a good player... waiting for a new firmware..

Sumvision M18/S1

I've just got the 2GB Sumvision and it plays the OGG files I've tested so far. Should I add it to the list? Steevc 04:05, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Yes, just do it :). --Gsauthof 10:18, 30 September 2011 (PDT)

Humble A2 Review

Just a blog link to my review of the the Cowon A2. Thanks, GChriss 13:23, 6 November 2007 (PST)

iRiver e100

CNet and Amazon are saying the iRiver e100 supports Vorbis. I haven't tested it myself. Mattflaschen 03:09, 15 April 2008 (PDT)

Bought an vorbis-enabled player recently? Tell us where!

I have started a page that should allow people easier purchasing of vorbis-enabled players: PortablePlayers_per_Place

Everyone, who bought an vorbis-enabled player recently should update the page with place and model.

Move Flash/HD-sections to dedicated pages

Hi,

IMHO the PortablePlayers page is too long. I want to split it into several pages for each main section. Like PortablePlayers/Flash, PortablePlayers/Harddisk etc.. Sure, one have to fix some links then, but I am convinced this step would increase the usability a lot. What do you think about that? --Gsauthof 01:20, 31 March 2009 (PDT)

Since there were no objections I restructured the page as planned. --Gsauthof 10:07, 27 June 2010 (UTC)