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What about 'Play Ogg'?

That project won't ever be succesful or useful for our cause. They mistake Vorbis for Ogg, try to promote it through fear instead of coolness, and it's just a single page with a lame banner. I contacted the responsible members of the FSF so we could work together, but I received no reply to this day. So be it. We shall go our separate ways. We have SOM, they have PlayOgg. The more the merrier.--Ivo 10:35, 8 June 2007 (PDT)

That's the press release you linked to. Their campaign is located at They don't mistake Vorbis for Ogg. also uses fear: “Avoid MP3, AAC, H.264, Xvid, and OOXML like the plague.” But it doesn't even mention patents. So the FSF campaign is has much more substance at the moment. They don't hide the real reason why Open Media formats were and are being developed. --Mms 14:18, 6 August 2007 (PDT)

So, please, dear Apple/Microsoft?

Why are we helping these companies to fullfill the needs of their costumers? I want to see especially those two destroyed! --Mms 14:25, 6 August 2007 (PDT)

Agree. I suggest deleting the letter to M$ about "windows". And I'll delete it soon if nobody contradicts with good arguments. The letter is absolutely pointless and ridiculous:
  • Someone who decides to use "windows" also decides to be happy with all features of it: WGA, DRM, built-in spyware, usage of proprietary fileformats (to be mailed to friends having "windows" as well), ...
  • You can't expect that WMF changes exclusive / default output format from WMV to Theora.
  • The user should have the right to choose the OS, not have all-in-one in "windows".
  • The "promise" that Ogg Family support in WMP will attract many new customers is absurd, "windows" and WMP already posses 98% of the market.
  • Asking for "better" mm support in "windows" makes the position of alternative OS'es even worse
  • There was a request to remove the WMP from "windows" in the past. One makes himself a fool if opposite requests come in from same / similar groups / lobbies :-D
OTOH The letters about hardware (portable players) are perfectly useful. DOS386 01:55, 7 August 2007 (PDT)
3 more hardware related letters added. DOS386 02:25, 7 August 2007 (PDT)

And you two are idealistic idiots. We want our formats to work EVERYWHERE. They weren't created for the free software camp alone but for everyone. We want to help the world to get away from proprietary formats. If that helps the Free Software, the Free Culture, or the Open Source movements in the process GREAT.

If you want to "destroy" those companies join Linux development for games, which is what it's needing right now. Also, do not port your tools to Windows or OS X. Make them exclusive of free software operating systems.

Open Formats exist solely to work across all applications known to humans. To avoid any kind of vendor lock-in. Okay?--Ivo 17:23, 7 August 2007 (PDT)

You want to promote open media formats through coolness but start your reply with “you two are idealistic idiots.” You mistake allowing proprietary software to include file format support with begging the main combatants for support. They are free to implement support in their next versions. Nobody wants to change this. But one makes himself a fool if he begs “please, dear Apple/Microsoft”. They play this game rough and they won't change their attitudes because some “idealistic idiots” send heart-warming letters to them. There is free software which runs on Windows and Mac OS. So if you want to address their users You can still advocate open media formats without forcing them to abandon these systems. --Mms 07:46, 9 August 2007 (PDT)
"Please dear" should probably be changed. I don't know what I was smoking at the time when I wrote that. I don't want to advocate users to change their systems. Most users don't even bother installing different applications, much less free software ones. They use WMP on Windows and iTunes on OS X. Bad, bad, bad. So the only way for mainstream is to convince those corporations to add support on their tools for Xiph formats, so their users will be able to use them without knowing anything about them. Will it work? Probably not. Microsoft and Apple have veiled interests. But we gotta try something. I think the MailOgging campaign is a good step in the right direction. Better than whinning that's for sure.
If no one will re-edit the letter templates, I will do it at some point and try to make it sound less lame. Begging is very unlikely to work.
I told RMS once over e-mail: we cannot save everyone. If users are ignorant and rather run Windows or OS X, we can do nothing in that regard, but spreading open media formats is one way of making a better world. Maybe then people will come to think better of free software and change to a better operating system.
And like I said in the iCommons Summit this year: software is a tool. Some tools are bad, others are good. What we have to make sure is that the formats those tools deal with work across all similar tools. Think of nails that are nails and so work on any kind of hammer. Am I making any sense?--Ivo 10:12, 9 August 2007 (PDT)