XiphWiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:PortablePlayers

2006-04-07T08:27:01Z

JoshuaRodman: /* Samsung's Yepp Ogg Vorbis support */

There are many more portable players by TrekStor than the i.beat 500 supporting ogg vorbis.

Please add products to the main page.

I would like to know which Players can '''record''' in OGG?! -- [[User:217.186.150.213|217.186.150.213]] 17:03, 26 Dec 2004 (PST)

== Pretec Allegro may need firmware update ==

I recently purchased a Pretec Allegro, but was unable to play Oggs for three months, until the firmware update was made available on 14 or 15 March 2005. Now it works well! (So far, listening to -q3 Oggs). I'd hope that units purchased after this date already has the firmware update, but you never know. Installing the update is as simple as placing the .rom on the USB-storage-device media (eg flash disk), starting up the unit, and pressing the play button. -- Hugo van der Merwe
: How much battery runtime do you get playing Oggs compared with playing mp3? [[User:Phr|Phr]] 02:05, 27 Aug 2005 (PDT)

== Any player with SD-Cards ==

Every single ogg-capable portable player out there seems to come with built-in flash memory. Which is stupid, because I don't want to fire up my computer and plug in the player every time I get tired of the tracks on my player. Plus flash memory has a limited lifetime (write cycles) and so does your player with built-in memory. The same applies for built-in rechargable batteries.

Now when would you ever need to buy your second device without any moving parts if you could just change flash memory and batteries? Ok, that's the industrie's point of view but not mine. I want to go on vacation with music and batteries for one week of non-stop music - without a power source or computer nearby.

So, any hint to where I might find a portable audio player that can play back ogg vorbis files and uses SD flash cards (and preferably AAA-batteries) would be greatly appreciated.
* Me too! If the [http://enox.co.kr/2004/eng/product/product_830_01.asp Enox EMX-830] took SD cards it'd be perfect. --[[User:Rgm|rgm]] 14:41, 7 Nov 2005 (PST)

----

The Pretec Allegro is not the slickest player out there, it's LCD backlight seems to give off a high-pitched whine, which not everyone can hear (it kind-of screams in my ears though, so I put the backlight timer on 1 second so it doesn't scream too long). It is, however, the only one I now know of that can play Oggs, and uses removable media. If you want a nicely portable device, you have to use Pretec's "iDisk tiny" usb flash disk, the only thing that will fit inside. You can also, however, connect some USB SD-card reader with it's cable, then listen to Oggs off of SD. A little unwieldy, but, it works, and is the only thing *I* know of. (I stopped following developments in December though, when I bought it...)

== Samsung's Yepp Ogg Vorbis support ==

JoshuaRodman wrote regarding the yp-t7z:
:I received such a unit. It plays oggs encodd at -q 4, 5 and 6 without error that I have noticed. However it seems underdocumented. It plays the files in an order which is neither alpha sorted nor numeric sorted, and it does not support ogg tags. -- JoshuaRodman (March 28, 2005)
:I've investigated more. Some music encoded at even -q 5 will break up or cause difficulty. I suspect these pieces have bitrate spikes. As for the ordering, the YP-T7 plays files in 'readdir' order. That is it does not sort the files out of the filesystem at all. In practice, this means it will play the files in the order that you add them to the directory. If you are a windows user dragging and dropping the files onto the player, this problem will not affect you. A linux or possible Mac user may need to do minor scripting to alleviate this issue. --JoshuaRodman (April 13, 2005)
:I thought I came back and clarified this, but don't have hte energy to review the edit history. In any event, there are no problems with OGG playback on my YP-T7z at this time. All symptoms have evaporated with firmware updates or magic. [[User:JoshuaRodman|JoshuaRodman]] 01:27, 7 April 2006 (PDT)

Spaz added for the YP-T7Z:
:After using the newest firmware I have had no issues playing OGG files. Any lockup or playback issues I had experienced went away. --Spaz (Dec 23, 2005)

Ulrich added for the YP-MT6Z:
:I think my manual says the first 8 characters of a filename are considered for sorting. As my files have the "tracknumber" tag, I wrote some Perl script that prepends that number (two digits plus a space) to the track names when being copied onto the player. I'm not sure about decoding problems, but there may be some. I encoded my files at q6 or higher using "oggenc" from Linux. Tags for title and performer are displayed unless you follow the Vorbis specification to create one tag for each performer. However, be aware that default settings have tag display disabled!

:The chip inside seems to be a Sigmatel STMP3400M, natively specified for MP3 with addon codecs.

:It would be great of Samsung Europe would release firmware with release notes (the Korean site has newer firmware, but no English, really!). There's also some inoffical newer firmware around, but also without any release notes. Official firmware is 2.122 (on my player as delivered and on CD and website).

:Recently I decided to remove some Ogg files from the player and add a few new ones. Unfortunately this resulted in some directories (usually structured as <artist>/<album>/<track-number> <track-title>) being unplayable. There's just a message saying "No Entry". Interestingly this happens with directories that did play before removing some files. Newer firmware didn't change anything about that. I suspect that this is caused by either 1) special characters in the file names (I use UTF-8 encoding), 2) special characters in the Vorbis comment, 3) length of file names, 4) number of files in the file system, or 5) amount of free space (my player has just 90kB free now). One symptom is that in Settings->System->About there are fewer files counted than actually exist in the filesystem. And yes, I've checked the filesystem several times. I have contacted German support, and they replied they'll investigate, but they did not ask back about any details (and support doesn't allow to reply).

:With the new inofficial firmware 2.290 I had a few crashes: The player was playing a continuous tone, and the only way to stop it was to remove the battiery for a moment. However as the effect was not repeatable when playing the same file, I can believe that some mobile phone triggered that. The other thing is the fact that my player came without FM radio. The newer firmware has the radio item in firmware, but as soon as I select it, the player will hang until the battery is removed. OK, that's inofficial firmware...
--(Ulrich on 2006-02-02)

::Two questions: 1) are ogg tags not being displayed even when the Tag option is toggle to On in the settings menu? 2) how does it handle -q 4 and -q 6 — is it just -q 5, or is it -q 5 and higher/lower? — [[User:Saxifrage|Saxifrage]] 01:07, 14 Apr 2005 (PDT)

:::I have seen no evidence of vorbis tags being supported; they are not displayed. I have generally encoded at -q 5 as an attempt to stay inside the "supported" bitrate boundaries. I find that the bitrate and breakups are not directly correlated, but somewhat related. This is no surprise if the problem is CPU time exhaustion. I have not found any particular quality encoding to fail either reliably or often. In general, speeds above the stated maximum supported bitrates have seemed to work fine. No lockups of any kind have been encountered. Incidentally, over 90% of my ogg files have been processed by vorbisgain. --JoshuaRodman (July 5, 2005)

I just bought one of these and I'm baffled by its erratic Ogg support. Firmware version 1.541 seems to support tags just fine, though I haven't noticed the alpha-sorting issue (haven't looked). However, I find that it can't play all my Ogg files (freezes when it tries to load the file), and there's nothing systematic that I've found to account for this. It plays some files I encoded [[Jan 29]]-[[Jan 30]], [[2005]], but there are files that don't work before and after that date. The files that work so far were encoded with nominal bitrates of 128 and 192, while others that don't work were at 160. All encodings have used the same program (Grip under Linux). Ogg files that I've encoded with oggenc directly for testing purposes at 160 nominal bitrate work just fine. There's just something about most of my existing files.

I've emailed a support request to Samsung Canada, so I'll report what I find out then. Meanwhile I'm doing a bunch of rips with Grip to test different nominal bitrates. [[User:Saxifrage|Saxifrage]] 10:53, 12 Apr 2005 (PDT)

:Results from my experiments with different nominal bitrates are summarised in this table:
{| align=center border=1
|+YP-T6 Ogg Vorbis support
|-
!   !! Tags
| none || tag* || tag + replaygain || replaygain
|-
!Bitrate (nominal) ||   ||   ||   ||   ||  
|-
| 128
|   || works || works || works || ?
|-
| 160
|   || works || works || '''freezes''' || works
|-
| 192
|   || works || works || works || ?
|}
:<nowiki>* </nowiki>"tag" means just the regular complement of artist, album, title, year, and genre.
:"?" indicates that the case was not tested

:My conclusion is that the Samsung YP-T6 can't handle Ogg Vorbis files encoded at 160 nominal bitrate if [[Wikipedia:ReplayGain|ReplayGain]] tags are applied to the file. Note too that I tested a file without real RG tags, but with the normal tags plus tags with different names than the standard RG tags but with the same name-length and same length of arguments; this was to isolate whether it was a ReplayGain-specific bug or a general tag-handling bug. Thus, I suspect that the problem is a buffer overflow in tag code of the firmware. '''Note''' that I have only tested files encoded with nominal bitrates, not files encoded with oggenc's quality settings.
:The few files in my collection that have worked were encoded at different bitrates (either 128 or 192), but unfortunately the vast majority are 160, and I need ReplayGain to be able to listen to my collection on the PC without constantly changing the volume. As a workaround I may write a script to strip the ReplayGain tags as they're moved to my player, but this rather sucks. — [[User:Saxifrage|Saxifrage]] 12:36, 12 Apr 2005 (PDT)

=== Yepp YP-T7JZ/T7JX ===

Samsung appears to have model bumped the yp-t7 series with the yp-t7j series. The spec sheet does not mention OGG/Vorbis as a supported file format. This seems a real shame as the t7 worked well. Does anyone have anything more conclusive? [[User:JoshuaRodman|JoshuaRodman]] 08:26, 6 January 2006 (PST)

=== Yepp MT-6X ===

:I ([[User:Gav|Gav]]) own a Yepp MT-6X and I don't come to the same conclusions. I tried to remove the Gain tags and it didn't improve anything. Here are some tests I made :

{| align=center border=1
|+YP-MT6X Ogg Vorbis support
|-
! Encoder version || Filename || Nominal bitrate || Playback test
|-
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20000508 (1.0 beta 1 or beta 2) || 01 - In Tenebris.ogg || unset (160 kbps) || KO
|-
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20001031 (1.0 beta 3) || 01 - A Day Without Rain.ogg || 160 kbps || KO
|-
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20010225 (1.0 beta 4) || 01 - Sunday Bloody Sunday.ogg || 128 kbps || KO
|-
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20010615 (1.0 rc1) || 01 - Remede.ogg || 128 kbps || KO
|-
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20010813 (1.0 rc2) || 01 - Devil's Haircut.ogg || 192 kbps || OK
|-
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20011231 (1.0 rc3) || 01 - Encore Une Chance.ogg || 112 kbps || OK
|-
|Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20020717 (1.0) || 01 - Inferno (Unleash The Fire).ogg || 160 kbps || KO
|-
|Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20030909 (1.0.1) || 01 - You Will Be a Hot Dancer.ogg || 128 kbps || OK
|-
|}

Yes, a 1.0 file fails... I also tested a 8 second file encoded at q1,q2,...,q10 using 20020717 (1.0) and it worked for every quality ! So not every 1.0-encoded file fails. See [[YeppGavDetails]] for details about the files.

: OK. I've done extensive tests and I can confirm what Saxifrage suggested : there is indeed a buffer overflow in the tag handling ! When the framing bit of the tag header is at offset >= 0x18C, it fails. If it is at exactly 0x18C, it reboots or freezes. If it is at offset > 0x18C, it always freezes. This was tested with firmware 1.101 and vorbis encoder 1.0.

: The file encoded using libVorbis 1.0 in the table above has a too large tag and that's why it fails.

: In summary, the Yepp can only play Vorbis when it is encoded with libVorbis version >= 1.0rc2 AND when the framing bit of the tag header is at offset < 0x18C.

=== Yepp YP-T6 ===

I've got this model with 256MB of flash memory, and unlike above, I ran into problems when I tried to play very-low-bitrate files (< 64kbps, CD format). I encoded them using [http://www.geocities.jp/aoyoume/aotuv/index.html aoTuV-beta4] experiment version from aoyumi (which creates (or should create) perfectly standard and conforming files), using command-line oggenc under linux. The qualities I used for these problematic files are -q-1 (~45kbps) and -q-2 (~32kbps), and when the player tries to open the file it freezes, but for qualities from -q0 it works perfectly.

Apart from that, I've had no real problem before, using mostly -q6 files from RC3 and 1.0, without tags or with standard ones. Sometimes the sound is distorted a lot for a few tenths of seconds, it seems to be related to bitrate peaks (applauds, etc.).

Hope this will be useful, anyway thanks for the investigations on this player, I also realized the lack of information on this player's ogg support. [[User:Superdupont|Superdupont]] 16:49, 2 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Edit: firmware version: 1.543

The YP-T6 seems to be almost identical to the Trekstor i.Beat Cube.

The YP-T6s sold in the US sports an FM Radio with 16 saved settings and automatic station search. Recording from a radio program to MP3 is possible. At least the German version of the YP-T6 does not have an built-in tuner.

The German web site has moved it from from "MP3 players" to the [http://av.samsung.de/subtype_tva_audiop_mp3_archiv.asp Archived MP3 players] section, while the [http://www.samsung.com/Products/DigitalAudioPlayer/MP3Players/YP_T6ZXAA.asp US] and [http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/digitalaudioplayer/flashmemory/index.asp UK] site lists it as regular model. I don't know if this indicates that Samsung is about to stop production of the T6 or if there have been problems on the German market (like restrictive radio emission laws, see built-in tuner section above).

=== Yepp YP-53 ===

I'am not sure what's inside this player. May be it's a STMP3505. With firmware 1.200 it plays Ogg Vorbis, but not at very low bitrates(-q-1 and -q-2).[[User:nostromo|nostromo]] 4 Nov 2005.

Firmware 1.200 is a bit difficult to find, googling by file name (YP-53_V1.200.zip) gets a single relevant result: [http://bluetek.co.kr/service/guide/driver_view.asp?idx=110&tbl_name=download_kr&page=3&qtype=model&query= Korean page with a link to the updater]. If it disappears, contact me ([[User:inejge|inejge]]) via this site ('''E-mail this user''' on the linked page).

The new firmware is much nicer than the previous release (my player came with V1.024):
* It plays OGGs, starting with -q0.
* The main screen is better organized.
* Menus are cleaned up (and with more eye candy).
* Non-ASCII characters in tags are displayed properly (tested with OGG).

'''Note:''' if you are encoding OGGs at -q0, ''don't'' try to set the lower bitrate limit to 64 kb/s -- the player can choke on managed bitrate files. Nominal bitrate is all that counts.

--[[User:Inejge|Inejge]] 06:32, 12 Dec 2005 (PST)

=== Yepp YP-U1 ===
'''Firmware 2.242:''' Plays Vorbis OK with tag support. Tested with aoTuV beta 4.51 and Xiph.org Vorbis between -q2 and -q8 (mostly at -q5; manual claims support from -q0 to -q10), no lockups so far. Experienced unusual distortion at one point of a particular track (loud, percussive synthetic "thunderclap") at -q5, decreasing with increasing -q value; this appears to be caused by a spike in bitrate, solved by passing encoding options
--managed -b160 -M192
--[[User:Ettlz|Ettlz]] 07:35, 25 January 2006 (PST)

== UniBrain iZak ==

Apologies if this is the wrong place for this; I'm new to wikis.

The UniBrain iZak was added, then removed recently, with the comment that it doesn't claim to play Ogg Vorbis.

The FAQ is available here: [http://www.unibrain.com/support/iZak/iZak_FAQ.htm iZak FAQ] and Question/Answer 22 says:

'22. Can iZak™ support OGG audio files?

Yes, iZak™ fully supports OGG playback using the latest firmware.'

:I was the one that removed it. In their specs linked from the main page, I saw that they listed only MP3 and WMA support for music formats. Obviously they need to update their promotional material! I went ahead and added the iZak back in, making a point to mention that the most current version of the firmware now supports Ogg Vorbis and linking to their FAQ as evidence. [[User:Saxifrage|Saxifrage]] 02:36, 5 May 2005 (PDT)

:Splendid. I didn't want to just stick it back after it had been taken out.--[[User:Ipl|Ipl]] 05:14, 5 May 2005 (PDT)

== Entempo Spirit ==

This inexpensive player from Entempo had listed Ogg as a "Supported Audio Format", but the device will not index the Ogg files into it's menus -- let alone play the files. Tested with both the stock and most recent firmware, May 29, 2005. Vendor had been contacted and removed Ogg support claims from their website, but has not provided any resolution to customers which purchased the product expecting this support. The company's webpage has disappeared as of Feb 2006.

== Lexar LDP-800 dropped ==
It seems that Lexar have abondoned the LDP-800. The following was posted by a user on [http://www.dapreview.net/comment.php?comment.news.1055 dapreview.net]
" Unfortunately, lexar will not offer the LDP-800, but will focus instead
on its existing LDP Players that already offer appealing features and
benefits to meet a variety of consumer needs."
Shame.--[[User:Ipl|Ipl]] 06:15, 22 Jul 2005 (PDT)

There's more info on that dapreview thread that indicates some confusion within Lexar. Currently, it looks like the release is going to happen in early September.

Update 2005-11-11: after inquiries to Lexar's "new products" personnel, I received a telephone message that the LDP-800 will definitely "is not going to see the light of day." Ask me if you want details. I agree that it's a shame since this looked to be an outstanding product. --[[User:dfavro|dfavro]]

== Hong Kong Dream-tech Electronic DT-202, works? please confirm ==
http://hkdream-tech.com
An ebay seller says that it can reproduce OGG. This is unconfirmed. In the manufacturer web it says: MP3, WMA, WAV, DMV and etc.

Some webpage also says that it works on Windows, Mac and Linux. Also unconfirmed.
Further investigation required.

== Trekstor i.Beat Cube ==
This player seems to be very similar to the Samsung Yepp YP-T6, possibly with the [[#Yepp_MT-6X|same problems]] regarding Ogg playback. Trekstor has moved [http://www.trekstor.de/en/produkte/mp3-player/ibeat-cube.html info about this player] from "MP3-Player" to the "Archive" section which propably means that it is not produced anymore.

== The Muzio jm300 / jm-300 does NOT play ogg ==

NB this is the jm-300 (not 100 or 200)

I bought this a month ago. I've been unable to play ogg files on
it. It simply shows these as 'etc' files and skips over them.

Pitty really, this was the main reason I chose this player.

I've seen lots of discussion about the muzio playing oggs, is there
anybody there who owns a jm300 and is actually playing oggs ? I can't
help think I've juts missed something basic.

== Layout of the PortablePlayers list ==

Wouldn't this list be easier to read if there was a seperate heading for each product, sorted by manufacturer? --[[User:Blenda|Blenda]] 09:13, 11 January 2006 (PST)

: There'd be a ''lot'' of entries then, I like the idea of a table format as suggested by G Markham on the Vorbis list recently (cut and pasted below). Although I think providing links to suppliers for each device and trying to maintain up-to-date availability is going too far.
: [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 09:19, 24 February 2006 (PST)

::Make it a table - or rather, four tables, for each combination of flash/hard disk and current/historical, with historical data below current. Split it up by model, not just by manufacturer - one manufacturer can have many different models with widely differing feature sets. Provide a link to the manufacturer's product page for each model, and either a table-based or a freeform list of commonly-sought features (microphone, radio, capacity, other formats). Provide details of which countries a player can be purchased in and, if it's not commonly available, details of how to find it in major markets (US, Europe).

::I want to be able to come to the page (as I tried to recently) and say "I need a flash-based player with a built-in USB connector and a mic, available in Europe", and find which models I should be googling for without difficulty.
::Gervase Markham on vorbis mailing list, inserted by [[User:Imalone|Imalone]]

: Here's a quick attempt I put together:

{{PlayersTableHeader|ManufacturerLink=[http://www.iaudio.com iAudio]}}
{{PlayersTableBody|Model=G3|MemType=Flash (builtin)
|MemSize=256MB, 512MB, 1GB
|UMS=Yes
|NeedUpd=NA
|Power=AA battery
|LineIn=Yes
|Mic=Yes
|Radio=Yes
|Formats= MP3, MP2, Ogg, WMA, ASF and WAV
|Comments= Very white, available from online retailers in UK
}}
{{PlayersTableBody|Model=Pianist
|MemType=Savant
|MemSize=Indefinite
|UMS=No
|NeedUpd=NA
|Power=
|LineIn=No
|Mic=No
|Radio=No
|Formats=Manuscript
|Comments=No, they don't really make this.
}}
{{PlayersTableFooter}}

: Obviously templates would be of some use here—someone more wiki-wise than me want to suggest something? Also those check boxes, I had a quick look but haven't got a way to do them that looks good (again, if you could come up with some convoluted solution, then it could be templated for convenience). Perhaps little icons might be easier for a few things like batteries, capacity, memory type where there tends to be a limited number of common choices.
: [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 09:56, 24 February 2006 (PST)

: On reflection, column 5 should be 'without firmware update' (or a less confusing text), because then support without firmware update would be green and green is good (or at least consistent). Left red above so you can see the contrast until someone does a less fully featured player. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 17:23, 24 February 2006 (PST)

: Changed this to an example template based table. XiphWiki is running on a version of mediawiki that doesn't support defaults so all fields need to be specified (even if empty). There is an 'NA' entry provided alongside 'Yes' and 'No' for the binary fields. All are case sensitive. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 08:25, 23 March 2006 (PST)

Talk:PortablePlayers

2006-01-06T16:26:59Z

JoshuaRodman: yp-t7j - request for info on ogg support

There are many more portable players by TrekStor than the i.beat 500 supporting ogg vorbis.

Please add products to the main page.

I would like to know which Players can '''record''' in OGG?! -- [[User:217.186.150.213|217.186.150.213]] 17:03, 26 Dec 2004 (PST)

== Pretec Allegro may need firmware update ==

I recently purchased a Pretec Allegro, but was unable to play Oggs for three months, until the firmware update was made available on 14 or 15 March 2005. Now it works well! (So far, listening to -q3 Oggs). I'd hope that units purchased after this date already has the firmware update, but you never know. Installing the update is as simple as placing the .rom on the USB-storage-device media (eg flash disk), starting up the unit, and pressing the play button. -- Hugo van der Merwe
: How much battery runtime do you get playing Oggs compared with playing mp3? [[User:Phr|Phr]] 02:05, 27 Aug 2005 (PDT)

== Any player with SD-Cards ==

Every single ogg-capable portable player out there seems to come with built-in flash memory. Which is stupid, because I don't want to fire up my computer and plug in the player every time I get tired of the tracks on my player. Plus flash memory has a limited lifetime (write cycles) and so does your player with built-in memory. The same applies for built-in rechargable batteries.

Now when would you ever need to buy your second device without any moving parts if you could just change flash memory and batteries? Ok, that's the industrie's point of view but not mine. I want to go on vacation with music and batteries for one week of non-stop music - without a power source or computer nearby.

So, any hint to where I might find a portable audio player that can play back ogg vorbis files and uses SD flash cards (and preferably AAA-batteries) would be greatly appreciated.
* Me too! If the [http://enox.co.kr/2004/eng/product/product_830_01.asp Enox EMX-830] took SD cards it'd be perfect. --[[User:Rgm|rgm]] 14:41, 7 Nov 2005 (PST)

----

The Pretec Allegro is not the slickest player out there, it's LCD backlight seems to give off a high-pitched whine, which not everyone can hear (it kind-of screams in my ears though, so I put the backlight timer on 1 second so it doesn't scream too long). It is, however, the only one I now know of that can play Oggs, and uses removable media. If you want a nicely portable device, you have to use Pretec's "iDisk tiny" usb flash disk, the only thing that will fit inside. You can also, however, connect some USB SD-card reader with it's cable, then listen to Oggs off of SD. A little unwieldy, but, it works, and is the only thing *I* know of. (I stopped following developments in December though, when I bought it...)

== Samsung's Yepp Ogg Vorbis support ==

JoshuaRodman wrote regarding the yp-t7z:
:I received such a unit. It plays oggs encodd at -q 4, 5 and 6 without error that I have noticed. However it seems underdocumented. It plays the files in an order which is neither alpha sorted nor numeric sorted, and it does not support ogg tags. -- JoshuaRodman (March 28, 2005)
:I've investigated more. Some music encoded at even -q 5 will break up or cause difficulty. I suspect these pieces have bitrate spikes. As for the ordering, the YP-T7 plays files in 'readdir' order. That is it does not sort the files out of the filesystem at all. In practice, this means it will play the files in the order that you add them to the directory. If you are a windows user dragging and dropping the files onto the player, this problem will not affect you. A linux or possible Mac user may need to do minor scripting to alleviate this issue. --JoshuaRodman (April 13, 2005)

Spaz added for the YP-T7Z:
:After using the newest firmware I have had no issues playing OGG files. Any lockup or playback issues I had experienced went away. --Spaz (Dec 23, 2005)

Ulrich added for the YP-MT6Z:
:I think my manual says the first 8 characters of a filename are considered for sorting. As my files have the "tracknumber" tag, I wrote some Perl script that prepends that number (two digits plus a space) to the track names when being copied onto the player. I'm not sure about decoding problems, but there may be some. I encoded my files at q6 or higher.

:The chip inside seems to be a Sigmatel STMP3400M, natively specified for MP3 with addon codecs.

:It would be great of Samsung Europe would release firmware with release notes (the Korean site has newer firmware, but no English, really!). There's also some inoffical newer firmware around, but also without any release notes. Official firmware is 2.122 (on my player as delivered and on CD and website). --(Ulrich on 2005-1027)

::Two questions: 1) are ogg tags not being displayed even when the Tag option is toggle to On in the settings menu? 2) how does it handle -q 4 and -q 6 — is it just -q 5, or is it -q 5 and higher/lower? — [[User:Saxifrage|Saxifrage]] 01:07, 14 Apr 2005 (PDT)

:::I have seen no evidence of vorbis tags being supported; they are not displayed. I have generally encoded at -q 5 as an attempt to stay inside the "supported" bitrate boundaries. I find that the bitrate and breakups are not directly correlated, but somewhat related. This is no surprise if the problem is CPU time exhaustion. I have not found any particular quality encoding to fail either reliably or often. In general, speeds above the stated maximum supported bitrates have seemed to work fine. No lockups of any kind have been encountered. Incidentally, over 90% of my ogg files have been processed by vorbisgain. --JoshuaRodman (July 5, 2005)

I just bought one of these and I'm baffled by its erratic Ogg support. Firmware version 1.541 seems to support tags just fine, though I haven't noticed the alpha-sorting issue (haven't looked). However, I find that it can't play all my Ogg files (freezes when it tries to load the file), and there's nothing systematic that I've found to account for this. It plays some files I encoded [[Jan 29]]-[[Jan 30]], [[2005]], but there are files that don't work before and after that date. The files that work so far were encoded with nominal bitrates of 128 and 192, while others that don't work were at 160. All encodings have used the same program (Grip under Linux). Ogg files that I've encoded with oggenc directly for testing purposes at 160 nominal bitrate work just fine. There's just something about most of my existing files.

I've emailed a support request to Samsung Canada, so I'll report what I find out then. Meanwhile I'm doing a bunch of rips with Grip to test different nominal bitrates. [[User:Saxifrage|Saxifrage]] 10:53, 12 Apr 2005 (PDT)

:Results from my experiments with different nominal bitrates are summarised in this table:
{| align=center border=1
|+YP-T6 Ogg Vorbis support
|-
!   !! Tags
| none || tag* || tag + replaygain || replaygain
|-
!Bitrate (nominal) ||   ||   ||   ||   ||  
|-
| 128
|   || works || works || works || ?
|-
| 160
|   || works || works || '''freezes''' || works
|-
| 192
|   || works || works || works || ?
|}
:<nowiki>* </nowiki>"tag" means just the regular complement of artist, album, title, year, and genre.
:"?" indicates that the case was not tested

:My conclusion is that the Samsung YP-T6 can't handle Ogg Vorbis files encoded at 160 nominal bitrate if [[Wikipedia:ReplayGain|ReplayGain]] tags are applied to the file. Note too that I tested a file without real RG tags, but with the normal tags plus tags with different names than the standard RG tags but with the same name-length and same length of arguments; this was to isolate whether it was a ReplayGain-specific bug or a general tag-handling bug. Thus, I suspect that the problem is a buffer overflow in tag code of the firmware. '''Note''' that I have only tested files encoded with nominal bitrates, not files encoded with oggenc's quality settings.
:The few files in my collection that have worked were encoded at different bitrates (either 128 or 192), but unfortunately the vast majority are 160, and I need ReplayGain to be able to listen to my collection on the PC without constantly changing the volume. As a workaround I may write a script to strip the ReplayGain tags as they're moved to my player, but this rather sucks. — [[User:Saxifrage|Saxifrage]] 12:36, 12 Apr 2005 (PDT)

=== Yepp YP-T7JZ/T7JX ===

Samsung appears to have model bumped the yp-t7 series with the yp-t7j series. The spec sheet does not mention OGG/Vorbis as a supported file format. This seems a real shame as the t7 worked well. Does anyone have anything more conclusive? [[User:JoshuaRodman|JoshuaRodman]] 08:26, 6 January 2006 (PST)

=== Yepp MT-6X ===

:I ([[User:Gav|Gav]]) own a Yepp MT-6X and I don't come to the same conclusions. I tried to remove the Gain tags and it didn't improve anything. Here are some tests I made :

{| align=center border=1
|+YP-MT6X Ogg Vorbis support
|-
! Encoder version || Filename || Nominal bitrate || Playback test
|-
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20000508 (1.0 beta 1 or beta 2) || 01 - In Tenebris.ogg || unset (160 kbps) || KO
|-
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20001031 (1.0 beta 3) || 01 - A Day Without Rain.ogg || 160 kbps || KO
|-
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20010225 (1.0 beta 4) || 01 - Sunday Bloody Sunday.ogg || 128 kbps || KO
|-
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20010615 (1.0 rc1) || 01 - Remede.ogg || 128 kbps || KO
|-
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20010813 (1.0 rc2) || 01 - Devil's Haircut.ogg || 192 kbps || OK
|-
|Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20011231 (1.0 rc3) || 01 - Encore Une Chance.ogg || 112 kbps || OK
|-
|Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20020717 (1.0) || 01 - Inferno (Unleash The Fire).ogg || 160 kbps || KO
|-
|Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20030909 (1.0.1) || 01 - You Will Be a Hot Dancer.ogg || 128 kbps || OK
|-
|}

Yes, a 1.0 file fails... I also tested a 8 second file encoded at q1,q2,...,q10 using 20020717 (1.0) and it worked for every quality ! So not every 1.0-encoded file fails. See [[YeppGavDetails]] for details about the files.

: OK. I've done extensive tests and I can confirm what Saxifrage suggested : there is indeed a buffer overflow in the tag handling ! When the framing bit of the tag header is at offset >= 0x18C, it fails. If it is at exactly 0x18C, it reboots or freezes. If it is at offset > 0x18C, it always freezes. This was tested with firmware 1.101 and vorbis encoder 1.0.

: The file encoded using libVorbis 1.0 in the table above has a too large tag and that's why it fails.

: In summary, the Yepp can only play Vorbis when it is encoded with libVorbis version >= 1.0rc2 AND when the framing bit of the tag header is at offset < 0x18C.

=== Yepp YP-T6 ===

I've got this model with 256MB of flash memory, and unlike above, I ran into problems when I tried to play very-low-bitrate files (< 64kbps, CD format). I encoded them using [http://www.geocities.jp/aoyoume/aotuv/index.html aoTuV-beta4] experiment version from aoyumi (which creates (or should create) perfectly standard and conforming files), using command-line oggenc under linux. The qualities I used for these problematic files are -q-1 (~45kbps) and -q-2 (~32kbps), and when the player tries to open the file it freezes, but for qualities from -q0 it works perfectly.

Apart from that, I've had no real problem before, using mostly -q6 files from RC3 and 1.0, without tags or with standard ones. Sometimes the sound is distorted a lot for a few tenths of seconds, it seems to be related to bitrate peaks (applauds, etc.).

Hope this will be useful, anyway thanks for the investigations on this player, I also realized the lack of information on this player's ogg support. [[User:Superdupont|Superdupont]] 16:49, 2 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Edit: firmware version: 1.543

The YP-T6 seems to be almost identical to the Trekstor i.Beat Cube.

The YP-T6s sold in the US sports an FM Radio with 16 saved settings and automatic station search. Recording from a radio program to MP3 is possible. At least the German version of the YP-T6 does not have an built-in tuner.

The German web site has moved it from from "MP3 players" to the [http://av.samsung.de/subtype_tva_audiop_mp3_archiv.asp Archived MP3 players] section, while the [http://www.samsung.com/Products/DigitalAudioPlayer/MP3Players/YP_T6ZXAA.asp US] and [http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/digitalaudioplayer/flashmemory/index.asp UK] site lists it as regular model. I don't know if this indicates that Samsung is about to stop production of the T6 or if there have been problems on the German market (like restrictive radio emission laws, see built-in tuner section above).

=== Yepp YP-53 ===

I'am not sure what's inside this player. May be it's a STMP3505. With firmware 1.200 it plays Ogg Vorbis, but not at very low bitrates(-q-1 and -q-2).[[User:nostromo|nostromo]] 4 Nov 2005.

Firmware 1.200 is a bit difficult to find, googling by file name (YP-53_V1.200.zip) gets a single relevant result: [http://bluetek.co.kr/service/guide/driver_view.asp?idx=110&tbl_name=download_kr&page=3&qtype=model&query= Korean page with a link to the updater]. If it disappears, contact me ([[User:inejge|inejge]]) via this site ('''E-mail this user''' on the linked page).

The new firmware is much nicer than the previous release (my player came with V1.024):
* It plays OGGs, starting with -q0.
* The main screen is better organized.
* Menus are cleaned up (and with more eye candy).
* Non-ASCII characters in tags are displayed properly (tested with OGG).

'''Note:''' if you are encoding OGGs at -q0, ''don't'' try to set the lower bitrate limit to 64 kb/s -- the player can choke on managed bitrate files. Nominal bitrate is all that counts.

--[[User:Inejge|Inejge]] 06:32, 12 Dec 2005 (PST)

== UniBrain iZak ==

Apologies if this is the wrong place for this; I'm new to wikis.

The UniBrain iZak was added, then removed recently, with the comment that it doesn't claim to play Ogg Vorbis.

The FAQ is available here: [http://www.unibrain.com/support/iZak/iZak_FAQ.htm iZak FAQ] and Question/Answer 22 says:

'22. Can iZak™ support OGG audio files?

Yes, iZak™ fully supports OGG playback using the latest firmware.'

:I was the one that removed it. In their specs linked from the main page, I saw that they listed only MP3 and WMA support for music formats. Obviously they need to update their promotional material! I went ahead and added the iZak back in, making a point to mention that the most current version of the firmware now supports Ogg Vorbis and linking to their FAQ as evidence. [[User:Saxifrage|Saxifrage]] 02:36, 5 May 2005 (PDT)

:Splendid. I didn't want to just stick it back after it had been taken out.--[[User:Ipl|Ipl]] 05:14, 5 May 2005 (PDT)

== Entempo Spirit ==

This inexpensive player from [http://www.entempo.com/ Entempo] lists Ogg as a "Supported Audio Format", but the device will not index the Ogg files into it's menus -- let alone play the files. Tested with both the stock and most recent firmware, May 29, 2005. Vendor has been contacted.

== Lexar LDP-800 dropped ==
It seems that Lexar have abondoned the LDP-800. The following was posted by a user on [http://www.dapreview.net/comment.php?comment.news.1055 dapreview.net]
" Unfortunately, lexar will not offer the LDP-800, but will focus instead
on its existing LDP Players that already offer appealing features and
benefits to meet a variety of consumer needs."
Shame.--[[User:Ipl|Ipl]] 06:15, 22 Jul 2005 (PDT)

There's more info on that dapreview thread that indicates some confusion within Lexar. Currently, it looks like the release is going to happen in early September.

Update 2005-11-11: after inquiries to Lexar's "new products" personnel, I received a telephone message that the LDP-800 will definitely "is not going to see the light of day." Ask me if you want details. I agree that it's a shame since this looked to be an outstanding product. --[[User:dfavro|dfavro]]

== Hong Kong Dream-tech Electronic DT-202, works? please confirm ==
http://hkdream-tech.com
An ebay seller says that it can reproduce OGG. This is unconfirmed. In the manufacturer web it says: MP3, WMA, WAV, DMV and etc.

Some webpage also says that it works on Windows, Mac and Linux. Also unconfirmed.
Further investigation required.

== Trekstor i.Beat Cube ==
This player seems to be very similar to the Samsung Yepp YP-T6, possibly with the [[#Yepp_MT-6X|same problems]] regarding Ogg playback. Trekstor has moved [http://www.trekstor.de/en/produkte/mp3-player/ibeat-cube.html info about this player] from "MP3-Player" to the "Archive" section which propably means that it is not produced anymore.

== The Muzio jm300 / jm-300 does NOT play ogg ==

NB this is the jm-300 (not 100 or 200)

I bought this a month ago. I've been unable to play ogg files on
it. It simply shows these as 'etc' files and skips over them.

Pitty really, this was the main reason I chose this player.

I've seen lots of discussion about the muzio playing oggs, is there
anybody there who owns a jm300 and is actually playing oggs ? I can't
help think I've juts missed something basic.

Talk:PortablePlayers

2005-07-05T18:28:58Z

JoshuaRodman: /* Samsung's Yepp Ogg Vorbis support */

Talk:PortablePlayers

2005-07-05T18:26:57Z

JoshuaRodman: /* Samsung's Yepp Ogg Vorbis support */

Talk:PortablePlayers

2005-04-14T01:55:55Z

JoshuaRodman: /* Samsung's Yepp Ogg Vorbis support */

PortablePlayers

2005-03-28T08:58:30Z

JoshuaRodman:

Here you can find all mobile players known to support Ogg [[Vorbis]].

== Flash Memory Storage ==

* [http://www.netonnet.se/item.asp?iid=61510 Avant] MP-8256, MP-8512, MP-81000
:Looks like another whitebox label (?) No official website found yet, but three models are offered in shops: MP-8256 with 256MB memory, MP-8512 (512MB) and MP-81000 (1GB). Plays not only Ogg Vorbis, but [[MP3]], [[WMA]] and even JPEG via colour display.

* [http://enox.co.kr/2004/eng/product/product_830_01.asp ENOX] EMX-830
:'The lightest and the smallest one among AAA type MP3 players.' Supports MP3, WMA, ASF, WAV, and Ogg Vorbis, has FM tuner, line-in and mic with direct MP3 encoding. Comes with 128/256/512/1024MB flash memory and USB 2.0 interface.

* [http://www.ez-av.com/english/product/index.html EZAV's] EMP-500, EMP-400
:The EMP-500 is a very light player, comes with 256/512/1024MB storage and supports MP3, WMA, and Ogg Vorbis. The EMP-400 has 256MB storage.

* [http://eng.iaudio.com/ iAudio] U2, G3
:The iAudio U2 is a small flash-based player (256MB/512MB/1GB), but may need a firmware upgrade to support Vorbis. See the download section of the homepage for that. The iAudio G3 offers the same storage sizes, and supports Ogg Vorbis out-of-the-box.

* [http://www.iops.co.kr/enghome/index.html Iops] MFP-312, MFP-325, MFP-350
:Iops offers the MFP-300 series player with 128/256/512MB/1GB internal flash memory. They offer voice and FM radio recording whilst maintaining a lightweight portable size.

* [http://www.iriver.com/ iRiver's] iFP-3xx, iFP-5xx, iFP-7xx, iFP-8xx, iFP-9xx, iFP-10xx, iFP-11xx
:iRiver has a huge line of flash-based players with various memory sizes (128MB to 1GB). Some of these players may need an updated firmware in order to play Ogg Vorbis files, see the [http://www.iriver.com/support/download.asp support download page] for that. Note -- only certain bitrates are supported, various problems are reported including reboots, silence and random noise when a VBR Vorbis passes outside the limit (96-225 Kbps.)

* [http://www.jensofsweden.com/ Jens Of Sweden's] MP-130, MP-400
:The MP-130 is a portable player with flash memory in 128/256/512MB sizes. This appears to be a rebranded Iops player. The MP-400 is a tiny machine with lots of features (line in, mic, fm radio, usb 2.0). With the updated 4.1 firmware it supports Ogg Vorbis files encoded with libvorbis version 1.0rc2 or later. When trying to play files encoded with earlier versions it freezes on playback, requiring an USB connect or reset button pressed (through a tiny hole) to wake up again.

* [http://www.jnc-digital.com/Eng/ JNC's] SSF-2002, SSF-2005
:These are flash-based players with 256 MB respectively 512 MB storage capacity. They have the usual FM radio which can be recorded in addition to voice. They also have a 1,9" color display.

* [http://www.lexar.com/mp3/index.html Lexar's] LDP-800
:Available from 03/2005 the LDP-800 is offering MP3, WMA and Ogg Vorbis Support with 256/512MB storage. It has a digital out, FM receiver and transmitter, can record from FM, mic and line-in and has a SD-card slot. Includes Sennheiser earbuds.

* [http://www.maxfield.de/ Maxfield's] Max-Diamond
: It's not yet on the homepage, but the Max-Diamond will be released in 03/2005 and supports MP3, Ogg Vorbis and WMA (DRM). It has 512MB flash memory and can record from FM radio.

* [http://mpeye.net/ MPeye] TS-400
:a flash player which comes in 128MB/256MB/512MB/1GB sizes, has a FM-receiver, colour display and a voice recorder.

* [http://www.muzio.co.kr/ Muzio's] JM100, JM200
:Another Korean manufacturer jumps in and offers small flash-based players with 128MB up to 1GB storage capacities. They support the usual formats MP3/WMA/Ogg Vorbis, can record voice, receive FM radio.

* [http://neurosaudio.com/store/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=DigitalInnovationsCatalog&category%5Fname=Neuros+Players&product%5Fid=4021500 Neuros'] Neuros II
:The Neuros II can be used as a stand-alone flash-player. You can later buy an HDD "backpack" from 20 to 80 gigs in size and switch the backpacks as you please. This player now has a free software(open-source) firmware.

* [http://www.pretec.com/OnlineSales/SSD/iDisk/Allegro/Allegro.htm Pretec's] Allegro
:The player supports MP3, WMA and Ogg Vorbis formats, uses USB Flash Drives for storage, has a 128x64 pixel blue screen with file info in 5 languages, 6 preset sound stages, one user defined graphic equalizer, low power consumption.

* [http://www.samsung.com/Products/ Samsung] / [http://www.yepp.co.kr/ Yepp] (product label), YP-T6, YP-T7
:The YP-T6 is an incredibly small flash player with 128/256/512/1024 MB storage, has a mic and FM radio. The YP-T7 has either 512MB or 1GB capacity, supports MP3, WMA (DRM) and Ogg Vorbis. It can display JPEGs on its color display.
I received such a unit. It plays oggs encodd at -q 4, 5 and 6 without error
that I have noticed. However it seems underdocumented. It plays the files
in an order which is neither alpha sorted nor numeric sorted, and it does
not support ogg tags. -- JoshuaRodman (March 28, 2005)

* [http://www.trekstor.de/ TrekStor's] iBeat fresh, iBeat organix
:The iBeat fresh comes with 256/512 MB storage has a 64K color display and the usual features. The iBeat organix is supposed to get a firmware upgrade and comes with 256/512/1024 MB flash memory.

* [http://www.wigobyte.com/ Wigo's] CVM-101, CVM-103, CVM-300, CVS-100
:Korean players with slick design, comes in 128/256/512/1024 MB depending on models. Support MP3/WMA/Ogg, FM receiver, voice recorder. Note: Ogg bitrates supported may be limited, check the manufacturer's specification for each device for details.

* [http://www.xcent.co.kr Xcent's] XT100
:This player is sold in the U.K. and comes with 256/512MB. It supports MP3, WMA, Ogg Vorbis and has FM radio and voice recording. It also works under Linux (kernel 2.4 upwards) and FreeBSD 5.3 (recognised as a removable mass storage device).

== Harddisk Storage ==

* [http://www.airlinktek.com/ AL Tech's] MG-25, MG-35, MG350HD
:The Mediagate MG-25 is a portable HDD that supports also media playback. It uses a 2,5" disk and USB2.0 to connect, and supports MPEG-1/-2/-4, DivX, Xvid, MP3, Ogg Vorbis, JPG. It can upsample to HDTV, has composite, component and s-video outs, stereo and a digital out. Remote control is included. The MG-35 uses a 3,5" HDD instead, supports WMA and ethernet. The MG350HD uses a 3,5" HDD as well and supports HDTV.

* [http://www.boghe.com/products/audio/vip20.htm Boghe] Vip20
:The Vip20 seems to be similar to the iBeat 500 from TrekStor and Xclef HD-800. It has the same features: MP3, WMA, WAV, Ogg Vorbis decoding plus 20 GB storage.

* [http://www.freecom.com/ Freecom's] MediaPlayer-3
:This is again sort of an external HDD that can play media without a PC. It supports DivX, MP3, MPEG-4, AVI, WMA, ASF and Ogg Vorbis. It is not yet listed on the webpage though.

* [http://www.godot.com.tw/ GoDot] M8170, M8270, M8370, M8470, M8570
:GoDot's HD players have capacity ranging from 2.2gb to 20gb. Each model is very different. They support Ogg Vorbis, MP3 and WMA (some models support DRM).

* [http://www.hama.de/portal?lid=2 Hama's] VSV-20
:The VSV-20 has the usual mobile MP3 HDD player size and can read/write from its 16in1 memory card reader and 20 GB internal HDD. But it can do more than audio (MP3, WMA, Ogg Vorbis, AAC). It supports image (JPEG) and video (MPEG-1/-4) playback on the 2" display and on a connected TV. It even includes a remote control.

* [http://eng.iaudio.com/ iAudio] M3, M5
:The iAudio M3 is a portable harddisk player with either 20 or 40 GB of storage. It has a built-in FM radio and mic. It supports MP3, WMA, Ogg Vorbis and WAV and even FLAC with the newest firmware upgrade. See this [http://gear.ign.com/articles/522/522090p1.html IGN article] for more info. The [http://www.engadget.com/entry/0377386638551474 iAudio M5] is announced for end 2004. It comes with colour display and USB-on-the-go function for 20GB storage.

* [http://www.ivmm.com/innoax/products_innopod.html InnoAX's] InnoPod
:This is a iPod mini clone, that supports MP3, WMA, WAV and Ogg Vorbis. It supports recording from line-in and mic, has a 4 GB harddrive and USB2.0.

* [http://www.iriver.com/ iRiver's] iHP-1xx, H1xx, H2xx, H3xx, iGP-100
:iRiver has also a number of harddisk based items that play back Ogg Vorbis. Older models like the [http://www.iriver.com/product/info.asp?p_name=iHP-100 iHP-100] and the [http://www.iriver.co.kr/product/info.asp?p_group=iHP&p_name=iHP-115 iHP-115] come in 10 and 15 GB sizes and need a firmware update (see the [http://www.iriver.com/support/download.asp support downloads] for that). The [http://www.iriver.com/product/info.asp?p_name=iHP-120 iHP-120], a 20GB portable player, and the [http://www.iriver.com/product/info.asp?p_name=iHP-140 iHP-140], a 40GB version, support Vorbis playback out of the box. Read reviews here: [http://gear.ign.com/articles/435/435472p1.html IGN on iHP-100], [http://gear.ign.com/articles/457/457818p1.html IGN on iHP-120]. The [http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/iGP-100.asp iGP-100], a 1.5Gb portable player, supports Vorbis, according to the FAQ, though no firmware upgrade appears to be required. The new line of harddisk players [http://www.iriver.com/product/info.asp?p_name=H140H110 H120, H140] come in 10 to 40 GB sizes. There is also a product line with USB host function and colour display that supports 32-500kbs: [http://www.iriver.com/product/info.asp?p_name=H340 H320, H340].

* [http://www.jetaudio.com/products/tvix/ JetAudio's] [http://www.tvix.co.kr/eng/ Dvico's] TViX
:This is a rather unique device. JetAudio calls it a multimedia jukebox, music tank, photo album and last but not least a portable storage. It is bigger than usual portable devices, but has also a lot more options. It can connect to the PC (USB 2.0), TV (S-Video, Composite), stereos and 5.1 surround systems (Coaxial/Optical) and comes with a remote control. Supported video formats are DVD (MPEG-2), VCD (MPEG-1), DivX, Xvid. Supported Audio formats are MP3, WMA and Ogg Vorbis. It can display JPEG pictures on the TV. It is available without a harddrive, or equipped with harddrive sizes up to 200 GB.

* [http://www.jnc-digital.com/Eng/ JNC's] SSF-M3, SSF-M5
:The SSF-M3 comes with 20/40GB storage size, whereas the SSF-M5 has only 1.5 GB. Both support voice recording and FM radio. The SSF-M3 is more stylish and very slim and comes with a docking station.

* [http://www.lge.com/ LG's] Mediagate
:This player is similar to the Modix or TViX. It is a portable USB HDD equipped with a 2,5" drive (size varies). It plays audio (MP3, Ogg Vorbis, WMA), video (MPEG-1/-2, Xvid, DivX) and images (JPEG). It has composite, s-video and component video output and supports progressive scan, audio output is done through a coaxial and stereo plug. The device is bundled with a remote control.

* [http://www.modix.co.kr/ Modix] HD-3510
:The HD-3510 is similar to the TViX, as it is sort of a portable multi-talent. It can store and playback audio, video and images, and can be used for other files as well. It can decode MPEG-1/-2/-4 including DivX/Xvid, AC3, DTS, MP3, WMA, Ogg Vorbis and JPEG. It uses USB2.0 for data input and has various ouput connectors: anlog stereo and 5.1 out, coaxial digital out, composite, s-video and component video out with progressive scan and HDTV upscaling. The HD-3510 is bundled with a carrying bag and a remote control, but without a 3,5" HDD.

* [http://mpeye.net/ MPeye's] HT-100, HT-150
:The HT-100 uses a 1,5 GB HDD, decodes MP3, WMA, Ogg Vorbis and supports the usual features. The HT-150 seems to have the same features (maybe a mistake on the website).

* [http://www.mpio.com/ mpio] HD300, HD200, One
:mpio HD300 is a harddisk player with 20GB and supports WAV/MP3/WMA/Ogg Vorbis. It has FM radio, an alarm clock and supports USB 2.0. The HD200 has 5GB storage capacity, a FM radio which can be recorded and supports the same formats as the HD300. Despite its name the One consist of three components: a player, a HDD and a CD-ROM drive, which can be combined with each other. It supports [[MP3]], [[WMA]], Ogg Vorbis, JPG, BMP and MPEG-4 movies. It has a 1" OLED display and will be available from 05/2005.

* [http://www.imp3.net/read.php?textid=1529 Muzio's] JM-600
:This player comes with either 2.2 or 4 GB harddrive and supports MP3, WMA, Ogg Vorbis and ASF. It can record voice and has a FM receiver. What sets this player apart is the LCD -- it can show BMPs, JPGs and text. The device can also act as a USB host to support digital cameras.

* [http://www.neurosaudio.com/ Neuros'] Neuros II
:This mobile player comes either with various harddrive sizes up to 80 GB or as 256 MB flash player. The new firmware to support Ogg Vorbis has been developed by the Xiph.org Foundation (see the [http://www.neurosaudio.com/press/news_item.aspx?itemID=80 press release]). Get the newest firmware version at Neuros' [http://www.neurosaudio.com/support/support_updates.asp support page]). The Neuros Synchronization Manager for Windows is available from the same link and now fully supports the addition of Vorbis files to the Neuros. *nix users can use either Xiph.org's [http://www.xiph.org/positron/ Positron] or Sean Starkey's Java [http://neurosdbm.sf.net/ Neuros Database Manipulator], both of which provide full Neuros database support and other features.

* [http://www.nextway.co.kr/ Nextway's] D Cube NHD-150D
:This player uses a small 1,5 GB harddisk and supports MP3, WMA and Ogg Vorbis. It connects trough USB 2.0 and can broadcast music through a FM sender.

* [http://www.modix-hd.com/ Rapsody's] RSH-100
:It is similar to the Modix HD-3510, but supports USB host functionality additionally.

* [http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/rioaudio/ Rio's] Karma
:The Rio [http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/item.asp?model=261 Karma] is a portable player with a harddisk of 20 GB. It can decode MP3, Ogg Vorbis and FLAC. USB 2.0 is used to connect to PCs, but a docking station is also included which offers ethernet and RCA line-out support. IGN has written a [http://gear.ign.com/articles/458/458401p1.html review] about the gadget, articles about the Karma can be found at [http://www.riovolution.com Riovolution]. Note that firmware versions prior to 1.25 cause stability problems for some people, visit the [http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/support/rio/product.asp?prodID=113 support page] to get the newest version.

* [http://www.safa.com.hk/index_110R.html Safa] HMP-110R
:A portable player with 1.5GB memory, FM-receiver, recording function, upgradeable firmware, etc.

* [http://www.samsung.com Samsung] YH-J70
:A portable Multimedia Jukebox as seen on their [http://www.samsung.com/common/microsite/exhibition/cebit2005/base.asp?pcode=IT01 Cebit 2005 Microsite]. Comes with 20/30GB disk, colour display, video player and USB host function

* [http://www.sitecom.com/ Sitecom's] MP-330
:This player uses a 4,4 GB harddrive, USB 2.0 and supports MP3, WMA and Ogg Vorbis (mentioned in the manual).

* [http://www.teac.de/ TEAC] MP-1000, MP-2000
:TEAC MP-1000 is an ultra-compact harddrive player with 1.5GB capacity and only 70g mass. The follow-up model MP-2000 has 5 GB storage and supports the same formats (MP3, WMA, Ogg Vorbis).

* [http://www.trekstor.de/ TrekStor's] iBeat 500, iBeat 300
:The iBeat 500 is a portable harddisk player with 20 GB of storage. It supports MP3, WMA and Ogg Vorbis and uses USB 2.0 to connect to PCs. It has a FM radio and an in-built mic. It seems to be available only in Germany (looks like a rebadged Xclef HD-800). The iBeat 300 uses a 1,5 GB HDD and has a color display.

* [http://www.xclef.com/ Xclef's] HD-800, HD-500
:This is a harddisk player with 20/40/60 GB storage size, and can decode MP3, WMA, Ogg Vorbis and WAV. It has a FM radio and a mic for recording voice. Though not mentioned on the web site, the HD-500 is also supposed to decode Ogg Vorbis.

== CD/DVD Audio Players ==

* [http://www.ifreemax.com/ Freemax's] FW-960
:This CD-R portable supports Ogg Vorbis playback out of the box. It has 48 hours of WMA playback if an external battery pack (2 AA batteries) is used. The FreeMax FW-960 is also known as the mpman MP-CD550.

* [http://www.exonion.com/ Havin's] (link dead) Exonion HVC-400E, [http://www.princeton.co.jp/ Princeton's] Pocket Beat airCD
:The Havin HVC-400E, also known as the Princeton airCD is probably on sale in Japan since late November, 2003.

* [http://www.iriver.com/product/info.asp?p_name=iMP-550 iRiver] iMP-250, iMP-350, iMP-400, iMP-550
:Ogg Vorbis is supported only through latest beta firmwares, still some bitrate restriction which may vary depending on the model (min=96kbps, max=160kbps). The iMP-550 supports maximum bitrate up to 256kps (still 96kbps as minimum). Also note the latest iMP-450 does not support OGG for the moment, a future upgrade may correct this...

* [http://www.samsungusa.com/ Samsung's] MCD-CM600
:The MCD-CM600 is now available in Korea. It is a CD portable that can play Vorbis, MP3, and WMA.

* [http://www.roadstar.com Roadstar] portable CD-Player: PCD-5960WOMPT

== Portable Digital Assisstants (PDAs) ==

PDAs are also cable of operating as portable music players using available software applications. Please visit [http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/VorbisSoftwarePlayers VorbisSoftwarePlayers] for more information.

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