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10:20, 9 August 2007
So, please, dear Apple/Microsoft?
Open Formats exist solely to work across all applications known to humans. To avoid any kind of vendor lock-in. Okay?--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:23, 7 August 2007 (PDT)
:You want to promote open media formats through coolness but start your reply with “you two are idealistic idiots.” You mistake allowing proprietary software to include file format support with begging the main combatants for support. They are free to implement support in their next versions. Nobody wants to change this. But one makes himself a fool if he begs “please, ''dear'' Apple/Microsoft”. They play this game rough and they won't change their attitudes because some “idealistic idiots” send heart-warming letters to them. There is free software which runs on Windows and Mac OS. So if you want to address their users You can still advocate open media formats without forcing them to abandon these systems. --[[User:Mms|Mms]] 07:46, 9 August 2007 (PDT)
::"Please dear" should probably be changed. I don't know what I was smoking at the time when I wrote that. I don't want to advocate users to change their systems. Most users don't even bother installing different applications, much less free software ones. They use WMP on Windows and iTunes on OS X. Bad, bad, bad. So the only way for mainstream is to convince those corporations to add support on their tools for Xiph formats, so their users will be able to use them without knowing anything about them. Will it work? Probably not. Microsoft and Apple have veiled interests. But we gotta try something. I think the MailOgging campaign is a good step in the right direction. Better than whinning that's for sure.
::If no one will re-edit the letter templates, I will do it at some point and try to make it sound less lame. Begging is very unlikely to work.
::I told RMS once over e-mail: we cannot save everyone. If users are ignorant and rather run Windows or OS X, we can do nothing in that regard, but spreading open media formats is one way of making a better world. Maybe then people will come to think better of free software and change to a better operating system.
::And like I said in the iCommons Summit this year: software is a tool. Some tools are bad, others are good. What we have to make sure is that the formats those tools deal with work across all similar tools. Think of nails that are nails and so work on any kind of hammer. Am I making any sense?--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 10:12, 9 August 2007 (PDT)
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