https://wiki.xiph.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Vmol&feedformat=atomXiphWiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T08:37:53ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.40.1https://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:TheoraTodo&diff=12236Talk:TheoraTodo2010-06-16T12:35:17Z<p>Vmol: /* OpenCL and Theora: feature request */ minor addition</p>
<hr />
<div>== OpenCL and Theora: feature request == <br />
<br />
This is a feature request to have OpenCL in the reference Theora encoder and decoder (libtheora codec). <br />
OpenCL on the GPU can accelerate the encoding and decoding process significantly, while being more energy efficient and relieves the CPU that has to do all sorts of things even without the transcoding job. <br />
Please add OpenCL support with GPU encoding and decoding to the libtheora codec. <br />
[http://www.khronos.org/opencl/]<br />
<br />
(Same thing for Dirac.)<br />
<br />
== FFMPEG2THEORA ==<br />
<br />
"j^" wrote:<br />
<br />
* > is possible: ffmpeg2theora -f image2 frame%06d.ppm -o output.ogg)<br />
* > remove ffmpeg2theora section since the bugs / enhancements listed are in svn<br />
* > FFPMEG2THEORA - bug is fixed in svn, also trac.xiph.org would be a better place for bug reports<br />
<br />
Thanks. Is it supposed to work (undocumented) in 0.19 or will it be in 0.20 ?<br />
<br />
Doesn't work for me with PNG in 0.19 ... "frame%06d.ppm" is one file ? And what the "%" is supposed to mean ? Please release 0.20 soon and document the features and syntax ;-)<br />
<br />
'''ffmpeg2theora -f image2 *.png -o output.ogg''' -> Failure <br />
<br />
Is / will be PNG (and BMP) supported or only PPM ?<br />
<br />
[[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 07:39, 2 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: Bugs not fixed in 0.20, now 0.21 is out, will retest [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:56, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== feature request: lossless mode for Theora two (bitstream format two?) ==<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For many people it is important, especially people who take their movies seriously. or when it matters to have no data loss.<br />
<br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 20 May 2008<br />
<br />
:You had asked this on [[Talk:Main_Page]] already. We now have:<br />
:* HuffYUV (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Lagarith (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Dirac lostless mode (BSD-like free, but not yet ready)<br />
:IMHO no need for Theora lostless. I suggest suspending this issue for a month or 2, then, when Theora 1.0 is out and Dirac is more mature, choose a preferred OGG lostless video codec ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:52, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: Lossless compression would still be a good thing to have for Theora. <br />
:: Even if there are other formats available that can do lossless. <br />
:: Not convinced about using another codec, a lossless mode for Theora is useful. :: --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 25 Jul 2009<br />
<br />
== Are these features okay for theora or not? ==<br />
<br />
Thank you for the open source codex theora with tools. <br />
It looks like there are a lot of features which is very good.<br />
However there is no variable frame rate support. <br />
<br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_codecs#Technical_details]<br />
<br />
Is there double buffering in the theora decoder?<br />
<br />
On blendernation there was an article where there was talked about <br />
double buffering added in a theora decoder, or something like that. <br />
(I'm not sure and haven't found the article on blendernation.)<br />
<br />
This was part of adding a video texture player in Blender: <br />
[http://www.blendernation.com/2008/11/07/bge-video-texture-player-integration/]<br />
<br />
When searching with google, there is no mentioning of double buffering in the theora decoder. <br />
<br />
Wat was interesting to read, <br />
with integrating double buffering in the blender video project. <br />
The cpu consumption was a lot lower.<br />
<br />
Are these things good ideas for the theora project?<br />
<br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 31 March 2009</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:TheoraTodo&diff=12235Talk:TheoraTodo2010-06-16T12:34:25Z<p>Vmol: /* OpenCL and Theora: feature request */ minor addition</p>
<hr />
<div>== OpenCL and Theora: feature request == <br />
<br />
This is a feature request to have OpenCL in the Theora encoder and decoder. <br />
OpenCL on the GPU can accelerate the encoding and decoding process significantly, while being more energy efficient and relieves the CPU that has to do all sorts of things even without the transcoding job. <br />
Please add OpenCL support with GPU encoding and decoding to the libtheora codec. <br />
[http://www.khronos.org/opencl/]<br />
<br />
(Same thing for Dirac.)<br />
<br />
== FFMPEG2THEORA ==<br />
<br />
"j^" wrote:<br />
<br />
* > is possible: ffmpeg2theora -f image2 frame%06d.ppm -o output.ogg)<br />
* > remove ffmpeg2theora section since the bugs / enhancements listed are in svn<br />
* > FFPMEG2THEORA - bug is fixed in svn, also trac.xiph.org would be a better place for bug reports<br />
<br />
Thanks. Is it supposed to work (undocumented) in 0.19 or will it be in 0.20 ?<br />
<br />
Doesn't work for me with PNG in 0.19 ... "frame%06d.ppm" is one file ? And what the "%" is supposed to mean ? Please release 0.20 soon and document the features and syntax ;-)<br />
<br />
'''ffmpeg2theora -f image2 *.png -o output.ogg''' -> Failure <br />
<br />
Is / will be PNG (and BMP) supported or only PPM ?<br />
<br />
[[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 07:39, 2 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: Bugs not fixed in 0.20, now 0.21 is out, will retest [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:56, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== feature request: lossless mode for Theora two (bitstream format two?) ==<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For many people it is important, especially people who take their movies seriously. or when it matters to have no data loss.<br />
<br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 20 May 2008<br />
<br />
:You had asked this on [[Talk:Main_Page]] already. We now have:<br />
:* HuffYUV (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Lagarith (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Dirac lostless mode (BSD-like free, but not yet ready)<br />
:IMHO no need for Theora lostless. I suggest suspending this issue for a month or 2, then, when Theora 1.0 is out and Dirac is more mature, choose a preferred OGG lostless video codec ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:52, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: Lossless compression would still be a good thing to have for Theora. <br />
:: Even if there are other formats available that can do lossless. <br />
:: Not convinced about using another codec, a lossless mode for Theora is useful. :: --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 25 Jul 2009<br />
<br />
== Are these features okay for theora or not? ==<br />
<br />
Thank you for the open source codex theora with tools. <br />
It looks like there are a lot of features which is very good.<br />
However there is no variable frame rate support. <br />
<br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_codecs#Technical_details]<br />
<br />
Is there double buffering in the theora decoder?<br />
<br />
On blendernation there was an article where there was talked about <br />
double buffering added in a theora decoder, or something like that. <br />
(I'm not sure and haven't found the article on blendernation.)<br />
<br />
This was part of adding a video texture player in Blender: <br />
[http://www.blendernation.com/2008/11/07/bge-video-texture-player-integration/]<br />
<br />
When searching with google, there is no mentioning of double buffering in the theora decoder. <br />
<br />
Wat was interesting to read, <br />
with integrating double buffering in the blender video project. <br />
The cpu consumption was a lot lower.<br />
<br />
Are these things good ideas for the theora project?<br />
<br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 31 March 2009</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:TheoraTodo&diff=12234Talk:TheoraTodo2010-06-16T12:31:13Z<p>Vmol: /* OpenCL and Theora: feature request */ typo</p>
<hr />
<div>== OpenCL and Theora: feature request == <br />
<br />
This is a feature request to have OpenCL in the Theora encoder and decoder. <br />
OpenCL on the GPU can accelerate the encoding and decoding process significantly while being more energy efficient and relieves the CPU that has to do all sorts of things even without the transcoding job. <br />
Please add OpenCL support to the libtheora codec. <br />
[http://www.khronos.org/opencl/]<br />
<br />
(Same thing for Dirac.)<br />
<br />
== FFMPEG2THEORA ==<br />
<br />
"j^" wrote:<br />
<br />
* > is possible: ffmpeg2theora -f image2 frame%06d.ppm -o output.ogg)<br />
* > remove ffmpeg2theora section since the bugs / enhancements listed are in svn<br />
* > FFPMEG2THEORA - bug is fixed in svn, also trac.xiph.org would be a better place for bug reports<br />
<br />
Thanks. Is it supposed to work (undocumented) in 0.19 or will it be in 0.20 ?<br />
<br />
Doesn't work for me with PNG in 0.19 ... "frame%06d.ppm" is one file ? And what the "%" is supposed to mean ? Please release 0.20 soon and document the features and syntax ;-)<br />
<br />
'''ffmpeg2theora -f image2 *.png -o output.ogg''' -> Failure <br />
<br />
Is / will be PNG (and BMP) supported or only PPM ?<br />
<br />
[[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 07:39, 2 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: Bugs not fixed in 0.20, now 0.21 is out, will retest [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:56, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== feature request: lossless mode for Theora two (bitstream format two?) ==<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For many people it is important, especially people who take their movies seriously. or when it matters to have no data loss.<br />
<br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 20 May 2008<br />
<br />
:You had asked this on [[Talk:Main_Page]] already. We now have:<br />
:* HuffYUV (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Lagarith (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Dirac lostless mode (BSD-like free, but not yet ready)<br />
:IMHO no need for Theora lostless. I suggest suspending this issue for a month or 2, then, when Theora 1.0 is out and Dirac is more mature, choose a preferred OGG lostless video codec ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:52, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: Lossless compression would still be a good thing to have for Theora. <br />
:: Even if there are other formats available that can do lossless. <br />
:: Not convinced about using another codec, a lossless mode for Theora is useful. :: --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 25 Jul 2009<br />
<br />
== Are these features okay for theora or not? ==<br />
<br />
Thank you for the open source codex theora with tools. <br />
It looks like there are a lot of features which is very good.<br />
However there is no variable frame rate support. <br />
<br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_codecs#Technical_details]<br />
<br />
Is there double buffering in the theora decoder?<br />
<br />
On blendernation there was an article where there was talked about <br />
double buffering added in a theora decoder, or something like that. <br />
(I'm not sure and haven't found the article on blendernation.)<br />
<br />
This was part of adding a video texture player in Blender: <br />
[http://www.blendernation.com/2008/11/07/bge-video-texture-player-integration/]<br />
<br />
When searching with google, there is no mentioning of double buffering in the theora decoder. <br />
<br />
Wat was interesting to read, <br />
with integrating double buffering in the blender video project. <br />
The cpu consumption was a lot lower.<br />
<br />
Are these things good ideas for the theora project?<br />
<br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 31 March 2009</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:TheoraTodo&diff=12233Talk:TheoraTodo2010-06-16T12:22:36Z<p>Vmol: added OpenCL support in libtheora feature request</p>
<hr />
<div>== OpenCL and Theora: feature request == <br />
<br />
This is a feature request to have OpenCL in the Theora encoder and decoder. <br />
OPenCL on the GPU can accelerate the encoding and decoding process significantly while being more energy efficient and relieves the CPU that has to do all sorts of things even without the transcoding job. <br />
Please add OpenCL support to the libtheora codec. <br />
[http://www.khronos.org/opencl/]<br />
<br />
(Same thing for Dirac.) <br />
<br />
<br />
== FFMPEG2THEORA ==<br />
<br />
"j^" wrote:<br />
<br />
* > is possible: ffmpeg2theora -f image2 frame%06d.ppm -o output.ogg)<br />
* > remove ffmpeg2theora section since the bugs / enhancements listed are in svn<br />
* > FFPMEG2THEORA - bug is fixed in svn, also trac.xiph.org would be a better place for bug reports<br />
<br />
Thanks. Is it supposed to work (undocumented) in 0.19 or will it be in 0.20 ?<br />
<br />
Doesn't work for me with PNG in 0.19 ... "frame%06d.ppm" is one file ? And what the "%" is supposed to mean ? Please release 0.20 soon and document the features and syntax ;-)<br />
<br />
'''ffmpeg2theora -f image2 *.png -o output.ogg''' -> Failure <br />
<br />
Is / will be PNG (and BMP) supported or only PPM ?<br />
<br />
[[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 07:39, 2 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: Bugs not fixed in 0.20, now 0.21 is out, will retest [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:56, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== feature request: lossless mode for Theora two (bitstream format two?) ==<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For many people it is important, especially people who take their movies seriously. or when it matters to have no data loss.<br />
<br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 20 May 2008<br />
<br />
:You had asked this on [[Talk:Main_Page]] already. We now have:<br />
:* HuffYUV (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Lagarith (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Dirac lostless mode (BSD-like free, but not yet ready)<br />
:IMHO no need for Theora lostless. I suggest suspending this issue for a month or 2, then, when Theora 1.0 is out and Dirac is more mature, choose a preferred OGG lostless video codec ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:52, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: Lossless compression would still be a good thing to have for Theora. <br />
:: Even if there are other formats available that can do lossless. <br />
:: Not convinced about using another codec, a lossless mode for Theora is useful. :: --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 25 Jul 2009<br />
<br />
== Are these features okay for theora or not? ==<br />
<br />
Thank you for the open source codex theora with tools. <br />
It looks like there are a lot of features which is very good.<br />
However there is no variable frame rate support. <br />
<br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_codecs#Technical_details]<br />
<br />
Is there double buffering in the theora decoder?<br />
<br />
On blendernation there was an article where there was talked about <br />
double buffering added in a theora decoder, or something like that. <br />
(I'm not sure and haven't found the article on blendernation.)<br />
<br />
This was part of adding a video texture player in Blender: <br />
[http://www.blendernation.com/2008/11/07/bge-video-texture-player-integration/]<br />
<br />
When searching with google, there is no mentioning of double buffering in the theora decoder. <br />
<br />
Wat was interesting to read, <br />
with integrating double buffering in the blender video project. <br />
The cpu consumption was a lot lower.<br />
<br />
Are these things good ideas for the theora project?<br />
<br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 31 March 2009</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:ROE&diff=12168Talk:ROE2010-05-19T19:28:16Z<p>Vmol: added CLDR pleas</p>
<hr />
<div>==CLDR please==<br />
It looks like ROE also does localization. e.g. languages.<br />
<br />
Reading this page: [http://cldr.unicode.org/]. There are a lot of other localization stuff. Under the name CLDR. <br />
<br />
CLDR is about the Unicode Common Locale Data Repository. It does a lot more than just language and region mapping. In fact, the other things are also very useful to have. (e.g. Engineers and the whole scientific community would be very pleased with the number localization.) (Because of the decimal and thousands separator issue: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator])<br />
Please add it. <br />
--[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 19:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=10535Talk:Main Page2009-09-02T13:20:40Z<p>Vmol: addition of link</p>
<hr />
<div>According to [[Special:Popularpages]], the various pages in the Demonstration section are the most visited parts of the wiki, so I moved that section to the top of the main page. --[[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 09:19, 26 April 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Work in Progress ==<br />
<br />
It's not clear on first view (to me at least) that<br />
[[Main Page#Work in Progress]] is a link to<br />
[[Work In Progress]] (as none of the other section headings<br />
are). Possibly it should be a normal heading with the link<br />
in a short text below (à la [[Main Page#Other software]]).<br />
<br />
[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 05:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
You are free to fix that. It's a wiki after all -- [[User:Jmspeex|Jmspeex]] 19:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
Done (just didn't want to trample all over the front page) -- [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 04:33, 2 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Lock This Page ==<br />
<br />
On all/most other wikis the Main Page is locked so only admins can edit it. Due to the amount of vandalism, I think the [[Main Page]] should be locked and all changes discussed here. --[[User:SonicChao|SonicChao]] 05:11, 27 August 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Done !<br />
<br />
== Paranoia / cdparanoia ==<br />
<br />
Why is there no listing under software of paranoia or cdparanoia? Also, there is no listing on the main xiph.org page. Is that software acknowlegded? --[[User:WhiteDragon|WhiteDragon]] 19:52, 9 September 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Suggestion :-O ==<br />
First I want to congratulate you on the wonderful work being done. Thank you very much :-)<br />
Please allow anonymous edits (like wikipedia does) b'caus i'm too lazy to login :-)<br />
<br />
:I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the ton of hidden links I just culled has nothing to do with you... I can't speak for the people running Xiph but requiring a login reduces some of the flood of spam that shows up here, and Wikipedia has many more resources available to deal with it than this wiki does. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 06:06, 24 November 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Proposal for a developer section ==<br />
<br />
As more developers start to "get it" about how ultra cool Ogg / Vorbis / Theora / etc is, wouldn't it be great to have a wiki section devoted to helping these budding programmers along? eg: i've written some nice code i'd be happy to share. Could contain a programming FAQ, how-to's, and real code. Thoughts? [[User:Davec|Davec]] 13:44, 6 December 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Why CamelCase? ==<br />
<br />
MediaWiki supports free links, why are most page titles in the CamelCase format? - [[User:Sikon|Sikon]] 05:34, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:CamelCase? I don't see what you mean. If you think something's wrong, you may go ahead and change it. That's what wikis are for.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 05:37, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:[[WhatHappened|Historical reasons]]. The original wiki used software that only supported [http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CamelCase CamelCase]. For new pages it is fine to use free links. I suggest not renaming pages, as many of them have good search ranking. [[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 07:03, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
I see now. And thanks for the WhatHappened link, Andrel. I managed to recover two pages so far from web archive. I wonder if I'll savage it further.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 08:28, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
== ICECast2 vs vBulletin ==<br />
<br />
Hi there,<br />
Fisrt let me thank you all the great work and the self performance over the ICECast streaming server<br />
<br />
I also Wonder if anyone had included ICECast directly into a vBulletin board having it worked from there on ..meaning enbable to use same username,permission and prefference from the database itself running on MySQL 5 having as if setting permission on for a usergroupe from there to enable them streaming out on your ICECast server and others can apply and yet just participate into the main forum itself<br />
<br />
I do have both running-up over my dedicated server now meanwhile if any would want to help me out creating like this hack or template am willing to give them all access for working over it <br />
can YOU imagine how friendly and powerful that ICECast would mean then<br />
<br />
hey give me a shout if willing to try it<br />
<br />
admin@gysmo.net<br />
<br />
== News ==<br />
<br />
Hi,<br />
<br />
I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items... Someone has made a graphical interface for ffmpeg2theora at http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Other-VIDEO-Tools/GFrontEnd-for-ffmpeg2theora.shtml<br />
<br />
I don't know the technical difficulties of building such a tool, but regardless, the ability for a common Windows user like myself to be able to just easily convert a proprietary file format to Ogg-Theora is really cool... I tested it out on the sample WMV file that came with this laptop, and the converted file worked great in Cortado... Of course, news about programs that allow one to record directly to Ogg-Theora would be even better, but this is still very important, imo... [[User:Brettz9|Brettz9]] 20:56, 4 July 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .NET :-( ==<br />
<br />
> I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items<br />
<br />
Check it out: > Requirements: .NET Framework 2.0<br />
<br />
Also, with 1.5 MiB size it's bigger than FFMPEG2THEORA itself (1.3 MiB after recompressing with UPX 3.0 --ultra-brute) - not that VERY good IMHO.<br />
<br />
: Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes? That's a drop in the bucket of most hard drives nowadays, no? And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too). My interest in seeing it announced is not how well it is implemented--if there are better alternatives let them be known--but that such a tool exists and it works (at least if you get the requirements).<br />
<br />
== MiB ||| .NET ==<br />
<br />
> Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes?<br />
<br />
NO. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix]]<br />
<br />
> And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too)<br />
<br />
I don't have .NET and don't like it :-( Finally, the important thing is the FFMPEG2THEOA core and it works perfectly for me without .NET ;-)<br />
<br />
== Link to Games in Demonstrations Section? ==<br />
<br />
Shouldn't there be a link to [[Games_that_use_Theora]] in the section with other demonstrations? Maybe there's not enough games listed on the page to warrant it?<br />
--[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 11:47, 27 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Yes. There's only two games listed right now. I'm pretty sure there's more out there. Sim9, can you help us listing more games?--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 11:56, 28 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I'm sure you're right, there ''has'' to be more than two. Theora (and Vorbis) is now by default included in the Torque game engine, so there must be a lot of games using it by now. I just polled the Torque community to see if they know of any to help us fill up the list with some successful integrations! --[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 19:02, 29 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Add xvid it's opensource ==<br />
<br />
Please add xvid to usable video format in ogv and others.<br />
It's an open source, mature codec and doesn't have encoder problems theora currently has.<br />
Embedding it makes possible to show off ogv files with a codec that shows the tru power of ogv.<br />
<br />
Please make it possible to put this in, so .ogv can be used immediately with xvid and vorbis/speex/flac to create a mature and temporary solution until theora 1.0 hits the digital streets.<br />
Then users can just batch convert it with their applications whenever they feel/want to do it.<br />
(When they think theora is ready.)<br />
Could someone please look into this and tell me if this is possible and/or will be integrated?<br />
--[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 1 February 2008 <br />
<br />
:Vmol, you should read about the issues a bit before filling up the whole wiki with so many questions. Most of your questions, concerns and statements have already been thought about. In this case here, Xvid cannot be considered because it is a patented format. That means it's not a free format like Theora and Xiph cannot use it. Theora is currently now undergoing the last stages of beta to version 1.0 and quality is already at pair with Xvid. Also, users can't simply transcode from one video format to another; you lose quality everytime you do it, because most video formats are lossy.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:37, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Random access Ogg Vorbis decoder written in Java. ==<br />
<br />
And I am very glad that now you have an encoder written in Java. Can vorbis-java-1.0.0 also do the decoding?<br />
Is there an example of how to use vorbis-java decoder?<br />
If yes, can it seek, i.e. decode an Ogg Vorbis bitstream from a random position?<br />
--[[User:Sergey|Sergey]] 12:53, 9 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video ==<br />
<br />
Lagarith is a lossless video codec. Please support it, with supporting I mean that it can be used in the ogg and annodex containers as a native video format.<br />
--[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 4 May 2008 <br />
<br />
:There is also HuffYUV besides Lagarith. Also the new Dirac codec supports lostless compression, reportedly better than anything else. Agree, a lostless codec should be added. Just carefully select one of them ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 01:31, 4 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: Lossless compression would still be a good thing to have for Theora. <br />
:: Even if there are other formats available that can do lossless. <br />
:: Not convinced about using another codec, a lossless mode for Theora is useful. <br />
:: Link to Theora todo page where lossless mode is requested: <br />
:: [http://wiki.xiph.org/Talk:TheoraTodo]<br />
:: --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 25 Jul 2009</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:TheoraTodo&diff=10534Talk:TheoraTodo2009-09-02T13:06:20Z<p>Vmol: forgotten a word</p>
<hr />
<div>== FFMPEG2THEORA ==<br />
<br />
"j^" wrote:<br />
<br />
* > is possible: ffmpeg2theora -f image2 frame%06d.ppm -o output.ogg)<br />
* > remove ffmpeg2theora section since the bugs / enhancements listed are in svn<br />
* > FFPMEG2THEORA - bug is fixed in svn, also trac.xiph.org would be a better place for bug reports<br />
<br />
Thanks. Is it supposed to work (undocumented) in 0.19 or will it be in 0.20 ?<br />
<br />
Doesn't work for me with PNG in 0.19 ... "frame%06d.ppm" is one file ? And what the "%" is supposed to mean ? Please release 0.20 soon and document the features and syntax ;-)<br />
<br />
'''ffmpeg2theora -f image2 *.png -o output.ogg''' -> Failure <br />
<br />
Is / will be PNG (and BMP) supported or only PPM ?<br />
<br />
[[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 07:39, 2 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: Bugs not fixed in 0.20, now 0.21 is out, will retest [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:56, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== feature request: lossless mode for Theora two (bitstream format two?) ==<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For many people it is important, especially people who take their movies seriously. or when it matters to have no data loss.<br />
<br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 20 May 2008<br />
<br />
:You had asked this on [[Talk:Main_Page]] already. We now have:<br />
:* HuffYUV (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Lagarith (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Dirac lostless mode (BSD-like free, but not yet ready)<br />
:IMHO no need for Theora lostless. I suggest suspending this issue for a month or 2, then, when Theora 1.0 is out and Dirac is more mature, choose a preferred OGG lostless video codec ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:52, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: Lossless compression would still be a good thing to have for Theora. <br />
:: Even if there are other formats available that can do lossless. <br />
:: Not convinced about using another codec, a lossless mode for Theora is useful. :: --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 25 Jul 2009<br />
<br />
== Are these features okay for theora or not? ==<br />
<br />
Thank you for the open source codex theora with tools. <br />
It looks like there are a lot of features which is very good.<br />
However there is no variable frame rate support. <br />
<br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_codecs#Technical_details]<br />
<br />
Is there double buffering in the theora decoder?<br />
<br />
On blendernation there was an article where there was talked about <br />
double buffering added in a theora decoder, or something like that. <br />
(I'm not sure and haven't found the article on blendernation.)<br />
<br />
This was part of adding a video texture player in Blender: <br />
[http://www.blendernation.com/2008/11/07/bge-video-texture-player-integration/]<br />
<br />
When searching with google, there is no mentioning of double buffering in the theora decoder. <br />
<br />
Wat was interesting to read, <br />
with integrating double buffering in the blender video project. <br />
The cpu consumption was a lot lower.<br />
<br />
Are these things good ideas for the theora project?<br />
<br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 31 March 2009</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:TheoraTodo&diff=10533Talk:TheoraTodo2009-09-02T13:04:55Z<p>Vmol: improved title this time</p>
<hr />
<div>== FFMPEG2THEORA ==<br />
<br />
"j^" wrote:<br />
<br />
* > is possible: ffmpeg2theora -f image2 frame%06d.ppm -o output.ogg)<br />
* > remove ffmpeg2theora section since the bugs / enhancements listed are in svn<br />
* > FFPMEG2THEORA - bug is fixed in svn, also trac.xiph.org would be a better place for bug reports<br />
<br />
Thanks. Is it supposed to work (undocumented) in 0.19 or will it be in 0.20 ?<br />
<br />
Doesn't work for me with PNG in 0.19 ... "frame%06d.ppm" is one file ? And what the "%" is supposed to mean ? Please release 0.20 soon and document the features and syntax ;-)<br />
<br />
'''ffmpeg2theora -f image2 *.png -o output.ogg''' -> Failure <br />
<br />
Is / will be PNG (and BMP) supported or only PPM ?<br />
<br />
[[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 07:39, 2 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: Bugs not fixed in 0.20, now 0.21 is out, will retest [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:56, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== feature request: lossless mode for Theora (bitstream format two?) ==<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
For many people it is important, especially people who take their movies seriously. or when it matters to have no data loss.<br />
<br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 20 May 2008<br />
<br />
:You had asked this on [[Talk:Main_Page]] already. We now have:<br />
:* HuffYUV (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Lagarith (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Dirac lostless mode (BSD-like free, but not yet ready)<br />
:IMHO no need for Theora lostless. I suggest suspending this issue for a month or 2, then, when Theora 1.0 is out and Dirac is more mature, choose a preferred OGG lostless video codec ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:52, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: Lossless compression would still be a good thing to have for Theora. <br />
:: Even if there are other formats available that can do lossless. <br />
:: Not convinced about using another codec, a lossless mode for Theora is useful. :: --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 25 Jul 2009<br />
<br />
== Are these features okay for theora or not? ==<br />
<br />
Thank you for the open source codex theora with tools. <br />
It looks like there are a lot of features which is very good.<br />
However there is no variable frame rate support. <br />
<br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_codecs#Technical_details]<br />
<br />
Is there double buffering in the theora decoder?<br />
<br />
On blendernation there was an article where there was talked about <br />
double buffering added in a theora decoder, or something like that. <br />
(I'm not sure and haven't found the article on blendernation.)<br />
<br />
This was part of adding a video texture player in Blender: <br />
[http://www.blendernation.com/2008/11/07/bge-video-texture-player-integration/]<br />
<br />
When searching with google, there is no mentioning of double buffering in the theora decoder. <br />
<br />
Wat was interesting to read, <br />
with integrating double buffering in the blender video project. <br />
The cpu consumption was a lot lower.<br />
<br />
Are these things good ideas for the theora project?<br />
<br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 31 March 2009</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:TheoraTodo&diff=10532Talk:TheoraTodo2009-09-02T12:30:10Z<p>Vmol: improved title</p>
<hr />
<div>== FFMPEG2THEORA ==<br />
<br />
"j^" wrote:<br />
<br />
* > is possible: ffmpeg2theora -f image2 frame%06d.ppm -o output.ogg)<br />
* > remove ffmpeg2theora section since the bugs / enhancements listed are in svn<br />
* > FFPMEG2THEORA - bug is fixed in svn, also trac.xiph.org would be a better place for bug reports<br />
<br />
Thanks. Is it supposed to work (undocumented) in 0.19 or will it be in 0.20 ?<br />
<br />
Doesn't work for me with PNG in 0.19 ... "frame%06d.ppm" is one file ? And what the "%" is supposed to mean ? Please release 0.20 soon and document the features and syntax ;-)<br />
<br />
'''ffmpeg2theora -f image2 *.png -o output.ogg''' -> Failure <br />
<br />
Is / will be PNG (and BMP) supported or only PPM ?<br />
<br />
[[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 07:39, 2 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: Bugs not fixed in 0.20, now 0.21 is out, will retest [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:56, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== Lossless compression for Theora II ? ==<br />
<br />
feature request: lossless mode for Theora (bitstream format two?)<br />
<br />
For many people it is important, especially people who take their movies seriously. or when it matters to have no data loss.<br />
<br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 20 May 2008<br />
<br />
:You had asked this on [[Talk:Main_Page]] already. We now have:<br />
:* HuffYUV (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Lagarith (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Dirac lostless mode (BSD-like free, but not yet ready)<br />
:IMHO no need for Theora lostless. I suggest suspending this issue for a month or 2, then, when Theora 1.0 is out and Dirac is more mature, choose a preferred OGG lostless video codec ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:52, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: Lossless compression would still be a good thing to have for Theora. <br />
:: Even if there are other formats available that can do lossless. <br />
:: Not convinced about using another codec, a lossless mode for Theora is useful. :: --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 25 Jul 2009<br />
<br />
== Are these features okay for theora or not? ==<br />
<br />
Thank you for the open source codex theora with tools. <br />
It looks like there are a lot of features which is very good.<br />
However there is no variable frame rate support. <br />
<br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_codecs#Technical_details]<br />
<br />
Is there double buffering in the theora decoder?<br />
<br />
On blendernation there was an article where there was talked about <br />
double buffering added in a theora decoder, or something like that. <br />
(I'm not sure and haven't found the article on blendernation.)<br />
<br />
This was part of adding a video texture player in Blender: <br />
[http://www.blendernation.com/2008/11/07/bge-video-texture-player-integration/]<br />
<br />
When searching with google, there is no mentioning of double buffering in the theora decoder. <br />
<br />
Wat was interesting to read, <br />
with integrating double buffering in the blender video project. <br />
The cpu consumption was a lot lower.<br />
<br />
Are these things good ideas for the theora project?<br />
<br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 31 March 2009</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:TheoraTodo&diff=10531Talk:TheoraTodo2009-09-02T12:29:13Z<p>Vmol: updated my name</p>
<hr />
<div>== FFMPEG2THEORA ==<br />
<br />
"j^" wrote:<br />
<br />
* > is possible: ffmpeg2theora -f image2 frame%06d.ppm -o output.ogg)<br />
* > remove ffmpeg2theora section since the bugs / enhancements listed are in svn<br />
* > FFPMEG2THEORA - bug is fixed in svn, also trac.xiph.org would be a better place for bug reports<br />
<br />
Thanks. Is it supposed to work (undocumented) in 0.19 or will it be in 0.20 ?<br />
<br />
Doesn't work for me with PNG in 0.19 ... "frame%06d.ppm" is one file ? And what the "%" is supposed to mean ? Please release 0.20 soon and document the features and syntax ;-)<br />
<br />
'''ffmpeg2theora -f image2 *.png -o output.ogg''' -> Failure <br />
<br />
Is / will be PNG (and BMP) supported or only PPM ?<br />
<br />
[[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 07:39, 2 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: Bugs not fixed in 0.20, now 0.21 is out, will retest [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:56, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== Lossless compression for Theora II ? ==<br />
<br />
Could theora II also have lossless compression integrated.<br />
<br />
For many people it is important, especially people who take their movies seriously. or when it matters to have no data loss.<br />
<br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 20 May 2008<br />
<br />
:You had asked this on [[Talk:Main_Page]] already. We now have:<br />
:* HuffYUV (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Lagarith (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Dirac lostless mode (BSD-like free, but not yet ready)<br />
:IMHO no need for Theora lostless. I suggest suspending this issue for a month or 2, then, when Theora 1.0 is out and Dirac is more mature, choose a preferred OGG lostless video codec ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:52, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: Lossless compression would still be a good thing to have for Theora. <br />
:: Even if there are other formats available that can do lossless. <br />
:: Not convinced about using another codec, a lossless mode for Theora is useful. :: --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 25 Jul 2009<br />
<br />
== Are these features okay for theora or not? ==<br />
<br />
Thank you for the open source codex theora with tools. <br />
It looks like there are a lot of features which is very good.<br />
However there is no variable frame rate support. <br />
<br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_codecs#Technical_details]<br />
<br />
Is there double buffering in the theora decoder?<br />
<br />
On blendernation there was an article where there was talked about <br />
double buffering added in a theora decoder, or something like that. <br />
(I'm not sure and haven't found the article on blendernation.)<br />
<br />
This was part of adding a video texture player in Blender: <br />
[http://www.blendernation.com/2008/11/07/bge-video-texture-player-integration/]<br />
<br />
When searching with google, there is no mentioning of double buffering in the theora decoder. <br />
<br />
Wat was interesting to read, <br />
with integrating double buffering in the blender video project. <br />
The cpu consumption was a lot lower.<br />
<br />
Are these things good ideas for the theora project?<br />
<br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 31 March 2009</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=10530Talk:Main Page2009-09-02T12:25:57Z<p>Vmol: changed my username, updated discussion with my new name and spelling mistakes</p>
<hr />
<div>According to [[Special:Popularpages]], the various pages in the Demonstration section are the most visited parts of the wiki, so I moved that section to the top of the main page. --[[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 09:19, 26 April 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Work in Progress ==<br />
<br />
It's not clear on first view (to me at least) that<br />
[[Main Page#Work in Progress]] is a link to<br />
[[Work In Progress]] (as none of the other section headings<br />
are). Possibly it should be a normal heading with the link<br />
in a short text below (à la [[Main Page#Other software]]).<br />
<br />
[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 05:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
You are free to fix that. It's a wiki after all -- [[User:Jmspeex|Jmspeex]] 19:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
Done (just didn't want to trample all over the front page) -- [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 04:33, 2 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Lock This Page ==<br />
<br />
On all/most other wikis the Main Page is locked so only admins can edit it. Due to the amount of vandalism, I think the [[Main Page]] should be locked and all changes discussed here. --[[User:SonicChao|SonicChao]] 05:11, 27 August 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Done !<br />
<br />
== Paranoia / cdparanoia ==<br />
<br />
Why is there no listing under software of paranoia or cdparanoia? Also, there is no listing on the main xiph.org page. Is that software acknowlegded? --[[User:WhiteDragon|WhiteDragon]] 19:52, 9 September 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Suggestion :-O ==<br />
First I want to congratulate you on the wonderful work being done. Thank you very much :-)<br />
Please allow anonymous edits (like wikipedia does) b'caus i'm too lazy to login :-)<br />
<br />
:I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the ton of hidden links I just culled has nothing to do with you... I can't speak for the people running Xiph but requiring a login reduces some of the flood of spam that shows up here, and Wikipedia has many more resources available to deal with it than this wiki does. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 06:06, 24 November 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Proposal for a developer section ==<br />
<br />
As more developers start to "get it" about how ultra cool Ogg / Vorbis / Theora / etc is, wouldn't it be great to have a wiki section devoted to helping these budding programmers along? eg: i've written some nice code i'd be happy to share. Could contain a programming FAQ, how-to's, and real code. Thoughts? [[User:Davec|Davec]] 13:44, 6 December 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Why CamelCase? ==<br />
<br />
MediaWiki supports free links, why are most page titles in the CamelCase format? - [[User:Sikon|Sikon]] 05:34, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:CamelCase? I don't see what you mean. If you think something's wrong, you may go ahead and change it. That's what wikis are for.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 05:37, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:[[WhatHappened|Historical reasons]]. The original wiki used software that only supported [http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CamelCase CamelCase]. For new pages it is fine to use free links. I suggest not renaming pages, as many of them have good search ranking. [[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 07:03, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
I see now. And thanks for the WhatHappened link, Andrel. I managed to recover two pages so far from web archive. I wonder if I'll savage it further.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 08:28, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
== ICECast2 vs vBulletin ==<br />
<br />
Hi there,<br />
Fisrt let me thank you all the great work and the self performance over the ICECast streaming server<br />
<br />
I also Wonder if anyone had included ICECast directly into a vBulletin board having it worked from there on ..meaning enbable to use same username,permission and prefference from the database itself running on MySQL 5 having as if setting permission on for a usergroupe from there to enable them streaming out on your ICECast server and others can apply and yet just participate into the main forum itself<br />
<br />
I do have both running-up over my dedicated server now meanwhile if any would want to help me out creating like this hack or template am willing to give them all access for working over it <br />
can YOU imagine how friendly and powerful that ICECast would mean then<br />
<br />
hey give me a shout if willing to try it<br />
<br />
admin@gysmo.net<br />
<br />
== News ==<br />
<br />
Hi,<br />
<br />
I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items... Someone has made a graphical interface for ffmpeg2theora at http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Other-VIDEO-Tools/GFrontEnd-for-ffmpeg2theora.shtml<br />
<br />
I don't know the technical difficulties of building such a tool, but regardless, the ability for a common Windows user like myself to be able to just easily convert a proprietary file format to Ogg-Theora is really cool... I tested it out on the sample WMV file that came with this laptop, and the converted file worked great in Cortado... Of course, news about programs that allow one to record directly to Ogg-Theora would be even better, but this is still very important, imo... [[User:Brettz9|Brettz9]] 20:56, 4 July 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .NET :-( ==<br />
<br />
> I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items<br />
<br />
Check it out: > Requirements: .NET Framework 2.0<br />
<br />
Also, with 1.5 MiB size it's bigger than FFMPEG2THEORA itself (1.3 MiB after recompressing with UPX 3.0 --ultra-brute) - not that VERY good IMHO.<br />
<br />
: Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes? That's a drop in the bucket of most hard drives nowadays, no? And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too). My interest in seeing it announced is not how well it is implemented--if there are better alternatives let them be known--but that such a tool exists and it works (at least if you get the requirements).<br />
<br />
== MiB ||| .NET ==<br />
<br />
> Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes?<br />
<br />
NO. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix]]<br />
<br />
> And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too)<br />
<br />
I don't have .NET and don't like it :-( Finally, the important thing is the FFMPEG2THEOA core and it works perfectly for me without .NET ;-)<br />
<br />
== Link to Games in Demonstrations Section? ==<br />
<br />
Shouldn't there be a link to [[Games_that_use_Theora]] in the section with other demonstrations? Maybe there's not enough games listed on the page to warrant it?<br />
--[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 11:47, 27 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Yes. There's only two games listed right now. I'm pretty sure there's more out there. Sim9, can you help us listing more games?--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 11:56, 28 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I'm sure you're right, there ''has'' to be more than two. Theora (and Vorbis) is now by default included in the Torque game engine, so there must be a lot of games using it by now. I just polled the Torque community to see if they know of any to help us fill up the list with some successful integrations! --[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 19:02, 29 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Add xvid it's opensource ==<br />
<br />
Please add xvid to usable video format in ogv and others.<br />
It's an open source, mature codec and doesn't have encoder problems theora currently has.<br />
Embedding it makes possible to show off ogv files with a codec that shows the tru power of ogv.<br />
<br />
Please make it possible to put this in, so .ogv can be used immediately with xvid and vorbis/speex/flac to create a mature and temporary solution until theora 1.0 hits the digital streets.<br />
Then users can just batch convert it with their applications whenever they feel/want to do it.<br />
(When they think theora is ready.)<br />
Could someone please look into this and tell me if this is possible and/or will be integrated?<br />
--[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 1 February 2008 <br />
<br />
:Vmol, you should read about the issues a bit before filling up the whole wiki with so many questions. Most of your questions, concerns and statements have already been thought about. In this case here, Xvid cannot be considered because it is a patented format. That means it's not a free format like Theora and Xiph cannot use it. Theora is currently now undergoing the last stages of beta to version 1.0 and quality is already at pair with Xvid. Also, users can't simply transcode from one video format to another; you lose quality everytime you do it, because most video formats are lossy.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:37, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Random access Ogg Vorbis decoder written in Java. ==<br />
<br />
And I am very glad that now you have an encoder written in Java. Can vorbis-java-1.0.0 also do the decoding?<br />
Is there an example of how to use vorbis-java decoder?<br />
If yes, can it seek, i.e. decode an Ogg Vorbis bitstream from a random position?<br />
--[[User:Sergey|Sergey]] 12:53, 9 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video ==<br />
<br />
Lagarith is a lossless video codec. Please support it, with supporting I mean that it can be used in the ogg and annodex containers as a native video format.<br />
--[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 4 May 2008 <br />
<br />
:There is also HuffYUV besides Lagarith. Also the new Dirac codec supports lostless compression, reportedly better than anything else. Agree, a lostless codec should be added. Just carefully select one of them ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 01:31, 4 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: Lossless compression would still be a good thing to have for Theora. <br />
:: Even if there are other formats available that can do lossless. <br />
:: Not convinced about using another codec, a lossless mode for Theora is useful. <br />
:: --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 25 Jul 2009</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=10529Talk:Main Page2009-09-02T12:24:09Z<p>Vmol: /* For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video */</p>
<hr />
<div>According to [[Special:Popularpages]], the various pages in the Demonstration section are the most visited parts of the wiki, so I moved that section to the top of the main page. --[[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 09:19, 26 April 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Work in Progress ==<br />
<br />
It's not clear on first view (to me at least) that<br />
[[Main Page#Work in Progress]] is a link to<br />
[[Work In Progress]] (as none of the other section headings<br />
are). Possibly it should be a normal heading with the link<br />
in a short text below (à la [[Main Page#Other software]]).<br />
<br />
[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 05:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
You are free to fix that. It's a wiki after all -- [[User:Jmspeex|Jmspeex]] 19:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
Done (just didn't want to trample all over the front page) -- [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 04:33, 2 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Lock This Page ==<br />
<br />
On all/most other wikis the Main Page is locked so only admins can edit it. Due to the amount of vandalism, I think the [[Main Page]] should be locked and all changes discussed here. --[[User:SonicChao|SonicChao]] 05:11, 27 August 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Done !<br />
<br />
== Paranoia / cdparanoia ==<br />
<br />
Why is there no listing under software of paranoia or cdparanoia? Also, there is no listing on the main xiph.org page. Is that software acknowlegded? --[[User:WhiteDragon|WhiteDragon]] 19:52, 9 September 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Suggestion :-O ==<br />
First I want to congratulate you on the wonderful work being done. Thank you very much :-)<br />
Please allow anonymous edits (like wikipedia does) b'caus i'm too lazy to login :-)<br />
<br />
:I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the ton of hidden links I just culled has nothing to do with you... I can't speak for the people running Xiph but requiring a login reduces some of the flood of spam that shows up here, and Wikipedia has many more resources available to deal with it than this wiki does. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 06:06, 24 November 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Proposal for a developer section ==<br />
<br />
As more developers start to "get it" about how ultra cool Ogg / Vorbis / Theora / etc is, wouldn't it be great to have a wiki section devoted to helping these budding programmers along? eg: i've written some nice code i'd be happy to share. Could contain a programming FAQ, how-to's, and real code. Thoughts? [[User:Davec|Davec]] 13:44, 6 December 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Why CamelCase? ==<br />
<br />
MediaWiki supports free links, why are most page titles in the CamelCase format? - [[User:Sikon|Sikon]] 05:34, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:CamelCase? I don't see what you mean. If you think something's wrong, you may go ahead and change it. That's what wikis are for.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 05:37, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:[[WhatHappened|Historical reasons]]. The original wiki used software that only supported [http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CamelCase CamelCase]. For new pages it is fine to use free links. I suggest not renaming pages, as many of them have good search ranking. [[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 07:03, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
I see now. And thanks for the WhatHappened link, Andrel. I managed to recover two pages so far from web archive. I wonder if I'll savage it further.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 08:28, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
== ICECast2 vs vBulletin ==<br />
<br />
Hi there,<br />
Fisrt let me thank you all the great work and the self performance over the ICECast streaming server<br />
<br />
I also Wonder if anyone had included ICECast directly into a vBulletin board having it worked from there on ..meaning enbable to use same username,permission and prefference from the database itself running on MySQL 5 having as if setting permission on for a usergroupe from there to enable them streaming out on your ICECast server and others can apply and yet just participate into the main forum itself<br />
<br />
I do have both running-up over my dedicated server now meanwhile if any would want to help me out creating like this hack or template am willing to give them all access for working over it <br />
can YOU imagine how friendly and powerful that ICECast would mean then<br />
<br />
hey give me a shout if willing to try it<br />
<br />
admin@gysmo.net<br />
<br />
== News ==<br />
<br />
Hi,<br />
<br />
I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items... Someone has made a graphical interface for ffmpeg2theora at http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Other-VIDEO-Tools/GFrontEnd-for-ffmpeg2theora.shtml<br />
<br />
I don't know the technical difficulties of building such a tool, but regardless, the ability for a common Windows user like myself to be able to just easily convert a proprietary file format to Ogg-Theora is really cool... I tested it out on the sample WMV file that came with this laptop, and the converted file worked great in Cortado... Of course, news about programs that allow one to record directly to Ogg-Theora would be even better, but this is still very important, imo... [[User:Brettz9|Brettz9]] 20:56, 4 July 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .NET :-( ==<br />
<br />
> I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items<br />
<br />
Check it out: > Requirements: .NET Framework 2.0<br />
<br />
Also, with 1.5 MiB size it's bigger than FFMPEG2THEORA itself (1.3 MiB after recompressing with UPX 3.0 --ultra-brute) - not that VERY good IMHO.<br />
<br />
: Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes? That's a drop in the bucket of most hard drives nowadays, no? And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too). My interest in seeing it announced is not how well it is implemented--if there are better alternatives let them be known--but that such a tool exists and it works (at least if you get the requirements).<br />
<br />
== MiB ||| .NET ==<br />
<br />
> Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes?<br />
<br />
NO. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix]]<br />
<br />
> And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too)<br />
<br />
I don't have .NET and don't like it :-( Finally, the important thing is the FFMPEG2THEOA core and it works perfectly for me without .NET ;-)<br />
<br />
== Link to Games in Demonstrations Section? ==<br />
<br />
Shouldn't there be a link to [[Games_that_use_Theora]] in the section with other demonstrations? Maybe there's not enough games listed on the page to warrant it?<br />
--[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 11:47, 27 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Yes. There's only two games listed right now. I'm pretty sure there's more out there. Sim9, can you help us listing more games?--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 11:56, 28 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I'm sure you're right, there ''has'' to be more than two. Theora (and Vorbis) is now by default included in the Torque game engine, so there must be a lot of games using it by now. I just polled the Torque community to see if they know of any to help us fill up the list with some successful integrations! --[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 19:02, 29 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Add xvid it's opensource ==<br />
<br />
Please add xvid to choosable video format in ogv and others.<br />
It's an open source, mature codec and doesn't have encoder problems theora currently has.<br />
Embedding it makes possible to show off ogv files with a codec that shows the tru power of ogv.<br />
<br />
Please make it possible to put this in, so .ogv can be used immediatelly with xvid and vorbis/speex/flac to create a mature and temporary solution until theora 1.0 hits the digital streets.<br />
Then users can just batch convert it with their applications whenever they feel/want to do it.<br />
(When they think theora is ready.)<br />
Could someone please look into this and tell me if this is possible and/or will be integrated?<br />
--[[User:Xpete|Xpete]] 1 February 2008 <br />
<br />
:XPete, you should read about the issues a bit before filling up the whole wiki with so many questions. Most of your questions, concerns and statements have already been thought about. In this case here, Xvid cannot be considered because it is a patented format. That means it's not a free format like Theora and Xiph cannot use it. Theora is currently now undergoing the last stages of beta to version 1.0 and quality is already at pair with Xvid. Also, users can't simply transcode from one video format to another; you lose quality everytime you do it, because most video formats are lossy.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:37, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Random access Ogg Vorbis decoder written in Java. ==<br />
<br />
And I am very glad that now you have an encoder written in Java. Can vorbis-java-1.0.0 also do the decoding?<br />
Is there an example of how to use vorbis-java decoder?<br />
If yes, can it seek, i.e. decode an Ogg Vorbis bitstream from a random position?<br />
--[[User:Sergey|Sergey]] 12:53, 9 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video ==<br />
<br />
Lagarith is a lossless video codec. Please support it, with supporting I mean that it can be used in the ogg and annodex containers as a native video format.<br />
--[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 4 May 2008 <br />
<br />
:There is also HuffYUV besides Lagarith. Also the new Dirac codec supports lostless compression, reportedly better than anything else. Agree, a lostless codec should be added. Just carefully select one of them ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 01:31, 4 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: Lossless compression would still be a good thing to have for Theora. <br />
:: Even if there are other formats available that can do lossless. <br />
:: Not convinced about using another codec, a lossless mode for Theora is useful. <br />
:: --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 25 Jul 2009</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=10528Talk:Main Page2009-09-02T12:23:38Z<p>Vmol: /* For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video */</p>
<hr />
<div>According to [[Special:Popularpages]], the various pages in the Demonstration section are the most visited parts of the wiki, so I moved that section to the top of the main page. --[[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 09:19, 26 April 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Work in Progress ==<br />
<br />
It's not clear on first view (to me at least) that<br />
[[Main Page#Work in Progress]] is a link to<br />
[[Work In Progress]] (as none of the other section headings<br />
are). Possibly it should be a normal heading with the link<br />
in a short text below (à la [[Main Page#Other software]]).<br />
<br />
[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 05:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
You are free to fix that. It's a wiki after all -- [[User:Jmspeex|Jmspeex]] 19:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
Done (just didn't want to trample all over the front page) -- [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 04:33, 2 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Lock This Page ==<br />
<br />
On all/most other wikis the Main Page is locked so only admins can edit it. Due to the amount of vandalism, I think the [[Main Page]] should be locked and all changes discussed here. --[[User:SonicChao|SonicChao]] 05:11, 27 August 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Done !<br />
<br />
== Paranoia / cdparanoia ==<br />
<br />
Why is there no listing under software of paranoia or cdparanoia? Also, there is no listing on the main xiph.org page. Is that software acknowlegded? --[[User:WhiteDragon|WhiteDragon]] 19:52, 9 September 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Suggestion :-O ==<br />
First I want to congratulate you on the wonderful work being done. Thank you very much :-)<br />
Please allow anonymous edits (like wikipedia does) b'caus i'm too lazy to login :-)<br />
<br />
:I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the ton of hidden links I just culled has nothing to do with you... I can't speak for the people running Xiph but requiring a login reduces some of the flood of spam that shows up here, and Wikipedia has many more resources available to deal with it than this wiki does. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 06:06, 24 November 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Proposal for a developer section ==<br />
<br />
As more developers start to "get it" about how ultra cool Ogg / Vorbis / Theora / etc is, wouldn't it be great to have a wiki section devoted to helping these budding programmers along? eg: i've written some nice code i'd be happy to share. Could contain a programming FAQ, how-to's, and real code. Thoughts? [[User:Davec|Davec]] 13:44, 6 December 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Why CamelCase? ==<br />
<br />
MediaWiki supports free links, why are most page titles in the CamelCase format? - [[User:Sikon|Sikon]] 05:34, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:CamelCase? I don't see what you mean. If you think something's wrong, you may go ahead and change it. That's what wikis are for.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 05:37, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:[[WhatHappened|Historical reasons]]. The original wiki used software that only supported [http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CamelCase CamelCase]. For new pages it is fine to use free links. I suggest not renaming pages, as many of them have good search ranking. [[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 07:03, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
I see now. And thanks for the WhatHappened link, Andrel. I managed to recover two pages so far from web archive. I wonder if I'll savage it further.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 08:28, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
== ICECast2 vs vBulletin ==<br />
<br />
Hi there,<br />
Fisrt let me thank you all the great work and the self performance over the ICECast streaming server<br />
<br />
I also Wonder if anyone had included ICECast directly into a vBulletin board having it worked from there on ..meaning enbable to use same username,permission and prefference from the database itself running on MySQL 5 having as if setting permission on for a usergroupe from there to enable them streaming out on your ICECast server and others can apply and yet just participate into the main forum itself<br />
<br />
I do have both running-up over my dedicated server now meanwhile if any would want to help me out creating like this hack or template am willing to give them all access for working over it <br />
can YOU imagine how friendly and powerful that ICECast would mean then<br />
<br />
hey give me a shout if willing to try it<br />
<br />
admin@gysmo.net<br />
<br />
== News ==<br />
<br />
Hi,<br />
<br />
I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items... Someone has made a graphical interface for ffmpeg2theora at http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Other-VIDEO-Tools/GFrontEnd-for-ffmpeg2theora.shtml<br />
<br />
I don't know the technical difficulties of building such a tool, but regardless, the ability for a common Windows user like myself to be able to just easily convert a proprietary file format to Ogg-Theora is really cool... I tested it out on the sample WMV file that came with this laptop, and the converted file worked great in Cortado... Of course, news about programs that allow one to record directly to Ogg-Theora would be even better, but this is still very important, imo... [[User:Brettz9|Brettz9]] 20:56, 4 July 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .NET :-( ==<br />
<br />
> I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items<br />
<br />
Check it out: > Requirements: .NET Framework 2.0<br />
<br />
Also, with 1.5 MiB size it's bigger than FFMPEG2THEORA itself (1.3 MiB after recompressing with UPX 3.0 --ultra-brute) - not that VERY good IMHO.<br />
<br />
: Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes? That's a drop in the bucket of most hard drives nowadays, no? And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too). My interest in seeing it announced is not how well it is implemented--if there are better alternatives let them be known--but that such a tool exists and it works (at least if you get the requirements).<br />
<br />
== MiB ||| .NET ==<br />
<br />
> Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes?<br />
<br />
NO. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix]]<br />
<br />
> And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too)<br />
<br />
I don't have .NET and don't like it :-( Finally, the important thing is the FFMPEG2THEOA core and it works perfectly for me without .NET ;-)<br />
<br />
== Link to Games in Demonstrations Section? ==<br />
<br />
Shouldn't there be a link to [[Games_that_use_Theora]] in the section with other demonstrations? Maybe there's not enough games listed on the page to warrant it?<br />
--[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 11:47, 27 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Yes. There's only two games listed right now. I'm pretty sure there's more out there. Sim9, can you help us listing more games?--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 11:56, 28 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I'm sure you're right, there ''has'' to be more than two. Theora (and Vorbis) is now by default included in the Torque game engine, so there must be a lot of games using it by now. I just polled the Torque community to see if they know of any to help us fill up the list with some successful integrations! --[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 19:02, 29 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Add xvid it's opensource ==<br />
<br />
Please add xvid to choosable video format in ogv and others.<br />
It's an open source, mature codec and doesn't have encoder problems theora currently has.<br />
Embedding it makes possible to show off ogv files with a codec that shows the tru power of ogv.<br />
<br />
Please make it possible to put this in, so .ogv can be used immediatelly with xvid and vorbis/speex/flac to create a mature and temporary solution until theora 1.0 hits the digital streets.<br />
Then users can just batch convert it with their applications whenever they feel/want to do it.<br />
(When they think theora is ready.)<br />
Could someone please look into this and tell me if this is possible and/or will be integrated?<br />
--[[User:Xpete|Xpete]] 1 February 2008 <br />
<br />
:XPete, you should read about the issues a bit before filling up the whole wiki with so many questions. Most of your questions, concerns and statements have already been thought about. In this case here, Xvid cannot be considered because it is a patented format. That means it's not a free format like Theora and Xiph cannot use it. Theora is currently now undergoing the last stages of beta to version 1.0 and quality is already at pair with Xvid. Also, users can't simply transcode from one video format to another; you lose quality everytime you do it, because most video formats are lossy.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:37, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Random access Ogg Vorbis decoder written in Java. ==<br />
<br />
And I am very glad that now you have an encoder written in Java. Can vorbis-java-1.0.0 also do the decoding?<br />
Is there an example of how to use vorbis-java decoder?<br />
If yes, can it seek, i.e. decode an Ogg Vorbis bitstream from a random position?<br />
--[[User:Sergey|Sergey]] 12:53, 9 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video ==<br />
<br />
Lagarith is a lossless video codec. Please support it, with supporting I mean that it can be used in the ogg and annodex containers as a native video format.<br />
--[[User:Xpete|Xpete]] 4 May 2008 <br />
<br />
:There is also HuffYUV besides Lagarith. Also the new Dirac codec supports lostless compression, reportedly better than anything else. Agree, a lostless codec should be added. Just carefully select one of them ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 01:31, 4 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: Lossless compression would still be a good thing to have for Theora. <br />
:: Even if there are other formats available that can do lossless. <br />
:: Not convinced about using another codec, a lossless mode for Theora is useful. <br />
:: --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 25 Jul 2009</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:MIME_Types_and_File_Extensions&diff=10509Talk:MIME Types and File Extensions2009-08-22T15:47:45Z<p>Vmol: /* Timed text (and images) in other profiles than .ogx/.anx please. */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Ideas==<br />
I came upon this page looking for a speex encoder but, loosely following your arguments, you guys seem to be arguing about how ogg files should be identified. My advice is to copy what they do with XML.<br />
<br />
audio/ogg -should be used for audio ogg files generally.<br />
audio/vorbis+ogg should be used for vorbis files in an ogg container.<br />
audio/speex+ogg should be used for speex files in an ogg container.<br />
<br />
If you put video files in ogg, use:<br />
<br />
video/ogg<br />
<br />
<br />
If you use ogg for non-media files use:<br />
<br />
application/ogg<br />
<br />
And and so on. As for people associating ogg files with vorbis, that is not surprising given that Vorbis was the only show in town for awhile. But because codecs likes speex are not widely supported yet it is important for people to be able to differenciate between different types of ogg files. Therefore I would use a double exension, like "*.spx.ogg" to identify speex files, and "*.vrbs.ogg" to identify vorbis files.<br />
--[[User:Logomachist|Logomachist]] 19:21, 1 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We have studied this issue and our solution is the best one possible given all variables. Just to counter one of your examples, given that an Ogg file with Vorbis audio, lyrics and album art would be audio/ogg+vorbis+kate+png do you still reckon that would be a good idea? XML is self-contained, it's a single instance; Ogg no: it can be anything. The same argument applies for the double extension idea: .theo.vorb.kate.ogg? Nope.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:54, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .flac - application/flac ==<br />
Why not audio/flac?<br />
<br />
Presumedly to distinguish it from "unencapsulated" flac. I'm not sure this makes sense though. Native flac is a fairly light container, and I suspect the current application/x-flac usage is just an analogy with ogg. OTOH, I don't think anyone's done flac over rtp, where this would be needed, but that is something that's interesting.<br />
<br />
:Edit: I have changed my opinion in this subject. Regardless, Josh agrees with audio/flac in case someone is willing to register it. application/flac was never registered.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:57, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::In a way application/flac to describe a stream which uses FLAC encapsulation is the same as using application/ogg to describe a stream using Ogg encapsulation. I don't really know if this is academic thinking and it's more developer-facing than end-user-facing. The question is what is going to be most consistent (and therefore make sense to someone trying to work it out). Since FLAC in Ogg is natively FLAC encapsulated it may make sense to use the same mime-type for native FLAC as the codec mime type to be used for FLAC in Ogg. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 07:26, 28 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .spx - audio/ogg ==<br />
Why not audio/spx?<br />
To distinguish it from ogg vorbis.<br />
<br />
:audio/speex is only used for Speex RTP or in any other case of "Oggless" Speex. Speex in Ogg, which is a common sight, is audio/ogg just like every other audio-only Ogg file, be it Vorbis, FLAC, Ghost/CELT, MIDI, and even OggPCM.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 07:01, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: Then we still need it for RTP and in native container seems to me.<br />
:: Because of the RTP vorbis and speex should have a unique MIME type right?<br />
:: And also for native container for making correct differences.<br />
:: (One of the greatest mistakes of computer programming is identifying two different things as the same.)<br />
:: Because you're goanna have to register it, best use it as well.<br />
<br />
== ".ogg" should be "application/ogg" ==<br />
<br />
I can't accept that ".ogg" becomes Vorbis I only extension.<br />
Ogg is not a codec. It is the container of codecs.<br />
That change will be missleading people.<br />
<br />
".ogg" has been defined as "application/ogg" and already used as Theora+Vorbis.<br />
Redefining ".ogg" as Vorbis I only extension and changing MIME type to "audio/ogg" is not backward-compatible.<br />
Changing spec should be more carefully.<br />
If possible, should not change fixed spec. (I know becoming RFC does not mean fixed spec. But it is treated as fixed spec) --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 07:31, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We understand your concern, but application/ogg isn't about audio, and people out there have wrongly associated .ogg with Vorbis only, making it harder for other codecs like Theora to succeed because of the file extension. They do not understand that Ogg is a container; they think Ogg is Vorbis. Although this proposal is somewhat radical and some people aren't 100% happy with it, it's for the best. video/ogg and audio/ogg will also be much useful now with the <video> and <audio> elements of HTML 5.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:04, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::".ogv" and ".oga" may be useful. I can accept this. But changing the definition of ".ogg" is really needed? I can't find the necessity of this. It breaks backward-compatibility. No one will be happy with this change... --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 13:56, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:::We are not breaking backwards-comaptibility. That's why Vorbis and Speex will be allowed to use .ogg and .spx instead of .oga. The only thing that may break backwards-compatibility is deprecating application/ogg in favor od video/ogg and audio/ogg. That and Theora files, but since there are no Theora hardware players that we know of, existing Theora files may be renamed to .ogv easily, making compatibility with previous files a non-issue. Backwards-compatibility was seriously considered during the creation of this proposal. We are not breaking it.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:53, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::Ummmmm..... I think ".ogg" re-definition is not necessary. My best resolution is simply adding the new ext definitions to RFC:<br />
::::* ".ogg" is application/ogg (as RFC3534)<br />
::::* define new ext and MIME : ".ogx", ".oga", ".ogv", etc...<br />
::::* Use of new extensions is recommended.<br />
::::* Official tools are using new ext (except .ogg for Vorbis I?)<br />
::::Changing of ".ogg"'s MIME type is really necessary? --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 16:35, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::: Want also to see more consistent behaviour like changing name of vorbis into something like n/m/l/w-orbis.<br />
::::: And mime type is then audio/ n/m/l/w-orbis <br />
::::: ogx is a very good way to overcome problems but be sure to let it have an internal version number for making changes later<br />
::::: Because of RTP and native containers codecs better have unique MIME-types, always:<br />
::::: Changes: vorbis: still .vorbis would be better(change name to something that doesn't starts with a v, nor, xor or g)<br />
::::: This solves the problem with backwards compatability because .ogg isn't used. <br />
::::: <br />
::::: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/vorbis, speex: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/speex<br />
::::: (audio/ogg with everything on it is being used for .oga and that <br />
::::: stands for ogg audio is very consistent and easy to see)<br />
::::: It has to be registered anyway for RTP !!!! <br />
::::: (It wouldn't be such a big assigment now to do that, but over a year or two, <br />
::::: you can't go back anymore because of compatability!!!)<br />
:::::<br />
::::: And people think that vorbis is a video format because it starts with a v.<br />
::::: So they look around if their player supports vorbis video but they find out only audio is supported.<br />
::::: Mad about getting wrong information and quit ogg for an alternative mostly.<br />
::::: Please change the name or create a new format that is essentially vorbis with another name. <br />
::::: (And also add new metadata formats in to have a reason for people to update.)<br />
<br />
==text/cmml==<br />
text/cmml for CMML without container: the Codec mime types are to be used in Skeleton, can this mime type be applied to the CMML Ogg mapping? (It's not plain text in the way that Vorbis mapped into Ogg is exactly audio/vorbis.)<br />
<br />
== .oga - able to rip cd's with all of it's contents also metadata like picture of the album (also separate pictures for each song)? Yes. This is fantastic==<br />
<br />
Can multiple audio streams/files be packed to one oga? <br />
(I mean that there are seperatable flac/speex/vorbis files that can be played separately). <br />
If this is the case then oga is a very good candidate for <br />
ripping a cd with all of it's contents and metadata without loss.<br />
<br />
On a cd there is usually a picture. If you rip the cd to one of Xiph.org's free formats, <br />
it's lost because nothing supports this. <br />
Mayby oga could support this with some extra metadata and pictures in jpeg: <br />
a picture for the .oga and a picture for each number via metadata-system or something like that. <br />
This way someone can easily rip cd's and <br />
keep them in a consistent way on his or her computer. <br />
(One oga per cd, with the same picture as one the cd box, with all the numbers of one cd in oga file that can be played separatelly)<br />
<br />
:Yes, Ogg can carry multiple streams of audio, so you could backup an entire album in Ogg as FLAC or Vorbis and use the .oga extension. In this case alone, it is recommended to use .oga instead of .ogg because .ogg is for a single Vorbis stream file, while .oga requires a Skeleton stream which helps players recognize all the different songs in the file. Confused? One song, .ogg. Multiple songs in one file, .oga. Just make sure that the .oga file has a Skeleton stream. You can verify that with the ogginfo command line tool. And yes, you can also add a JPEG or PNG inside Ogg. I just don't know of any program that supports it, but theoretically it is possible. Just a heads up again, a song and an image are two streams of data, not just one, so again it would use .oga instead of .ogg. This also prevents breaking existing players that don't support embeded images.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:48, 25 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
foobar2000's plugin OggPreview can create as many chained Vorbis streams inside a single Ogg file as you want, and each of them can keep its own metadata.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: This sounds great and about streams of audio: <br />
Can I think of those streams also as separate audio files inside a multistream file? <br />
Because flac for example can also do up to eight streams.<br />
<br />
:::Yes.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
Have also a few other questions:<br />
- Is it possible to have an oga with an album in with a mix of songs in flac, vorbis and speexs?<br />
- Is it possible in oga to have a different picture for each song, stream ?<br />
(For when people make their own albums out of different albums and they want the picture of that album for each song.)<br />
<br />
:Again, yes. Theoretically, there is no limitation in what you can put in Ogg and the order you want it in, but while the format has no such limitations, this is not the case with the software out there. So, the short answer is, for the general public it will look as if Ogg cannot do that which you ask even though it can.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 06:58, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
:: Fantastic, please make sure this is included into the libraries of Xiph.org since applications can easily include them.<br />
<br />
:::To the extent that is possible, the libraries already support embeding of pictures in Ogg. The problem is the programs out there. If you care about this issue and you are either a developer or have money to hire one, you should patch free software programs like VLC to support it. Then hopefully the non-free programs like foobar2000 will follow the lead.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:48, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
::::When is there going to be support for lyrics for audiofiles and in what form (what file extensions will be able to have it and what metadata standards will be able to do it) ?<br />
::::It is currently no way to save those.<br />
<br />
:::::Support in third party player software ? Lyrics for audio files are a lot like movie subtitles - text mapped to a time interval (unless you mean lyrics without the timing, in which case you could store them in Vorbis comments).<br />
:::::For timed lyrics, CMML and Kate can store this in a muxed stream, with the caveat that many Vorbis-only players will choke on a muxed stream.<br />
:::::You still need a way to display those in a player, however, but this is a question for the programmers for whatever player you're using<br />
::::::Hoped for player (or specification) that is able to show text mapped to a time interval without the timing. <br />
::::::Or else the text have to stand in the file two times. One time for mapping and another time for serving as meta data.<br />
:::::::If you want it without the timing, you have to store it in headers, as streaming it will get you the text only as its presentation<br />
:::::::time is reached. You could do that if you were loading from a file, but that's only a special case, so it's best to leave that text<br />
:::::::interleaved with other streams. A player wanting to display the entirety of the lyrics at once would have to, if possible (eg, if not<br />
:::::::streaming), scan the entire file to recover the text. Parsing Ogg packets is relatively fast, so a threaded player could do this while<br />
:::::::starting streaming a file and have the text ready in under a second for a typical song I suppose. Still, this is player specific code<br />
:::::::using whatever codec's library. For instance, if the lyrics are stored as a Kate stream, you could do something like:<br />
::::::: char lyrics[4096]; /* you'll want to dynamically allocate this as you read text */<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_init(&k);<br />
::::::: while (1) {<br />
::::::: if (get_packet(&oy,&os,&init,&op)) break;<br />
::::::: kate_packet_wrap(&kp,op.bytes,op.packet);<br />
::::::: if (kate_high_decode_packetin(&k,&kp,&ev)>0) break;<br />
::::::: if (ev) { strcat(lyrics, ev->text); strcat(lyrics, "\n"); }<br />
::::::: }<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_clear(&k);<br />
:::::::As you see, it's very little code once you have the Ogg stream ready for sync, but this has to be done by each player<br />
:::::::as the get_packet thing will be piggybacking on that player's Ogg read routines.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Timed text (and images) in other profiles than .ogx/.anx please. ==<br />
(Important Note: This is not the same as the topic above this one!)<br />
<br />
The topic above this one asks if Ogg is capable of having such streams. <br />
<br />
This topic is about allowing those streams in certain profiles. <br />
<br />
<br />
(This topic is a bunch of ideas that is meant to help Xiph.org/the formats, <br />
constructive criticism. <br />
I don't say everybody has to do everything I tell here! <br />
I'm not saying it's bad and shouldn't be done either! )<br />
<br />
<br />
The profile list looks very good but raises a few questions about audio and video profiles in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
<br />
audio:<br />
In the oga and axa profile, it looks like timed images and/or text aren't allowed. <br />
In axa there is a CMML for timed text. CMML is a special case. There are not Kate streams possible in both. <br />
In axa and oga there seems no timed images with OggSpots allowed, even if it's possible because of the skeleton structure in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
Timed image(s)/text streams would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people would want to have album art and lyrics in their audio files. <br />
This is reasonably basic for audio files and shouldn't be restricted to the application (and other) profiles. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a timed images stream (OggSpots) and a timed text stream. Also add the change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
(Wiki/format documentation/...) <br />
<br />
video:<br />
There doesn't seem to be a timed text stream allowed for ogv profile. <br />
>Ogg Video Profile (a/v in Ogg container)< <br />
And axv only allows a CMML stream. Which is not the same as allowing a timed text stream. <br />
Timed text streams would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people want to have subtitles in their video files. <br />
It's pretty basic for video and shouldn't be restricted to the application profiles. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a text stream. Also add this change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
<br />
Two more special cases of stuff: <br />
Being allowed to use xspf with some kate streams in a file for a timed text stream would be handy in some situations. <br />
Allow/Add embedding/usage of fonts (svgfonts, svg files) in all the profiles that can have text that's being displayed, thus where fonts are used. <br />
This has been brought up on the Kate page. <br />
<br />
Link to OggKate page: [http://wiki.xiph.org/Talk:OggKate]<br />
(scroll to bottom of that page)<br />
<br />
--[[User:Vmol|vmol]] 22 august 2009 17 hours GMT + 1<br />
<br />
== Samples of .oga in the Wild ==<br />
<br />
'''2008-09-04 Update -- another ogg-FLAC ( oga ) file in the wild:''' Brahms' <br />
[http://www.archive.org/details/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16 ''Tragic Overture in D Minor, Op. 81''] to view the item's details page, or you can [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/m3u-Web-streamable.m3u listen losslessly by m3u], orrrr -- Maestro, fanfare please? ... [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/xspf-oga.xspf by first downloading the xspf]. -- [[User:SamN3]] <br />
<br />
Ar Dubya, Reno, NV here -- do we really need the jam-packed (pun) .oga file full of timed lyrics, pix, one-armed jugglers and three-eyed midget strippers (fun as they may be)? Is its capability to carry eight-track FLACs created from DTS-HD Master Audio source material not sufficient? I'm not a developer and don't feel a particularly strong urge to become one to provide non-audio data in the ogg container. As it is, the .oga file can carry my surround sound studio master quality FLACs and render them on-the-fly in my buddy's VLC player on his PC 12,000 miles away. Frankly, I'd like to see more emphasis on perfecting audio technology as opposed to all this other (non-audio) nonsense. By analogy, I'm reminded of the fellow who travels frequently by air, and his pointing out to a companion on a flight, that if you want good food, go to a restaurant. Don't expect a five-course gourmet meal on a plane. That wasn't why it was built.<br />
<br />
For an example of Ogg's doing what she does best, check out my son's Metal band, Blasphemous Creation on the Internet Archive: http://www.archive.org/details/b.c.2008-03-09.flac.studio.demo --[[User:SamN3]]<br />
<br />
:Users do whatever they want with Ogg. We are not going to take that freedom away from them. If you do not see the value of adding a one-armed juggler and three-eyed midget strippers in Ogg someone out there does. You do not have to change your mind about it; just use Ogg in any way you want.<br />
<br />
:And regarding your comment on what emphasis you would prefer seeing, that is an easy thing to do: either volunteer your time to carry on your agenda or pay someone else to do it for you, but do not put your own agenda in front of the other people's. Me, I'd like to see an emphasis on perfecting '''everything''' around here in Xiph. Is that going to happen? Probably not if I and other people don't help, and that's why I'm here, but we are human and can only do as much.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 18:05, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Allow me to put things another way, then: I see the growing emphasis on non-audio material in the ogg container as a disturbing trend.<br />
<br />
::For the record, I have put a *great* deal of time and thought into flac and more recently ogg-FLAC, albeit without the digital equivalent of an employee time card as proof.--[[User:SamN3]]</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:MIME_Types_and_File_Extensions&diff=10508Talk:MIME Types and File Extensions2009-08-22T15:27:22Z<p>Vmol: /* Timed text (and images) in other profiles than .ogx/.anx please. */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Ideas==<br />
I came upon this page looking for a speex encoder but, loosely following your arguments, you guys seem to be arguing about how ogg files should be identified. My advice is to copy what they do with XML.<br />
<br />
audio/ogg -should be used for audio ogg files generally.<br />
audio/vorbis+ogg should be used for vorbis files in an ogg container.<br />
audio/speex+ogg should be used for speex files in an ogg container.<br />
<br />
If you put video files in ogg, use:<br />
<br />
video/ogg<br />
<br />
<br />
If you use ogg for non-media files use:<br />
<br />
application/ogg<br />
<br />
And and so on. As for people associating ogg files with vorbis, that is not surprising given that Vorbis was the only show in town for awhile. But because codecs likes speex are not widely supported yet it is important for people to be able to differenciate between different types of ogg files. Therefore I would use a double exension, like "*.spx.ogg" to identify speex files, and "*.vrbs.ogg" to identify vorbis files.<br />
--[[User:Logomachist|Logomachist]] 19:21, 1 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We have studied this issue and our solution is the best one possible given all variables. Just to counter one of your examples, given that an Ogg file with Vorbis audio, lyrics and album art would be audio/ogg+vorbis+kate+png do you still reckon that would be a good idea? XML is self-contained, it's a single instance; Ogg no: it can be anything. The same argument applies for the double extension idea: .theo.vorb.kate.ogg? Nope.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:54, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .flac - application/flac ==<br />
Why not audio/flac?<br />
<br />
Presumedly to distinguish it from "unencapsulated" flac. I'm not sure this makes sense though. Native flac is a fairly light container, and I suspect the current application/x-flac usage is just an analogy with ogg. OTOH, I don't think anyone's done flac over rtp, where this would be needed, but that is something that's interesting.<br />
<br />
:Edit: I have changed my opinion in this subject. Regardless, Josh agrees with audio/flac in case someone is willing to register it. application/flac was never registered.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:57, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::In a way application/flac to describe a stream which uses FLAC encapsulation is the same as using application/ogg to describe a stream using Ogg encapsulation. I don't really know if this is academic thinking and it's more developer-facing than end-user-facing. The question is what is going to be most consistent (and therefore make sense to someone trying to work it out). Since FLAC in Ogg is natively FLAC encapsulated it may make sense to use the same mime-type for native FLAC as the codec mime type to be used for FLAC in Ogg. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 07:26, 28 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .spx - audio/ogg ==<br />
Why not audio/spx?<br />
To distinguish it from ogg vorbis.<br />
<br />
:audio/speex is only used for Speex RTP or in any other case of "Oggless" Speex. Speex in Ogg, which is a common sight, is audio/ogg just like every other audio-only Ogg file, be it Vorbis, FLAC, Ghost/CELT, MIDI, and even OggPCM.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 07:01, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: Then we still need it for RTP and in native container seems to me.<br />
:: Because of the RTP vorbis and speex should have a unique MIME type right?<br />
:: And also for native container for making correct differences.<br />
:: (One of the greatest mistakes of computer programming is identifying two different things as the same.)<br />
:: Because you're goanna have to register it, best use it as well.<br />
<br />
== ".ogg" should be "application/ogg" ==<br />
<br />
I can't accept that ".ogg" becomes Vorbis I only extension.<br />
Ogg is not a codec. It is the container of codecs.<br />
That change will be missleading people.<br />
<br />
".ogg" has been defined as "application/ogg" and already used as Theora+Vorbis.<br />
Redefining ".ogg" as Vorbis I only extension and changing MIME type to "audio/ogg" is not backward-compatible.<br />
Changing spec should be more carefully.<br />
If possible, should not change fixed spec. (I know becoming RFC does not mean fixed spec. But it is treated as fixed spec) --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 07:31, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We understand your concern, but application/ogg isn't about audio, and people out there have wrongly associated .ogg with Vorbis only, making it harder for other codecs like Theora to succeed because of the file extension. They do not understand that Ogg is a container; they think Ogg is Vorbis. Although this proposal is somewhat radical and some people aren't 100% happy with it, it's for the best. video/ogg and audio/ogg will also be much useful now with the <video> and <audio> elements of HTML 5.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:04, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::".ogv" and ".oga" may be useful. I can accept this. But changing the definition of ".ogg" is really needed? I can't find the necessity of this. It breaks backward-compatibility. No one will be happy with this change... --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 13:56, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:::We are not breaking backwards-comaptibility. That's why Vorbis and Speex will be allowed to use .ogg and .spx instead of .oga. The only thing that may break backwards-compatibility is deprecating application/ogg in favor od video/ogg and audio/ogg. That and Theora files, but since there are no Theora hardware players that we know of, existing Theora files may be renamed to .ogv easily, making compatibility with previous files a non-issue. Backwards-compatibility was seriously considered during the creation of this proposal. We are not breaking it.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:53, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::Ummmmm..... I think ".ogg" re-definition is not necessary. My best resolution is simply adding the new ext definitions to RFC:<br />
::::* ".ogg" is application/ogg (as RFC3534)<br />
::::* define new ext and MIME : ".ogx", ".oga", ".ogv", etc...<br />
::::* Use of new extensions is recommended.<br />
::::* Official tools are using new ext (except .ogg for Vorbis I?)<br />
::::Changing of ".ogg"'s MIME type is really necessary? --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 16:35, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::: Want also to see more consistent behaviour like changing name of vorbis into something like n/m/l/w-orbis.<br />
::::: And mime type is then audio/ n/m/l/w-orbis <br />
::::: ogx is a very good way to overcome problems but be sure to let it have an internal version number for making changes later<br />
::::: Because of RTP and native containers codecs better have unique MIME-types, always:<br />
::::: Changes: vorbis: still .vorbis would be better(change name to something that doesn't starts with a v, nor, xor or g)<br />
::::: This solves the problem with backwards compatability because .ogg isn't used. <br />
::::: <br />
::::: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/vorbis, speex: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/speex<br />
::::: (audio/ogg with everything on it is being used for .oga and that <br />
::::: stands for ogg audio is very consistent and easy to see)<br />
::::: It has to be registered anyway for RTP !!!! <br />
::::: (It wouldn't be such a big assigment now to do that, but over a year or two, <br />
::::: you can't go back anymore because of compatability!!!)<br />
:::::<br />
::::: And people think that vorbis is a video format because it starts with a v.<br />
::::: So they look around if their player supports vorbis video but they find out only audio is supported.<br />
::::: Mad about getting wrong information and quit ogg for an alternative mostly.<br />
::::: Please change the name or create a new format that is essentially vorbis with another name. <br />
::::: (And also add new metadata formats in to have a reason for people to update.)<br />
<br />
==text/cmml==<br />
text/cmml for CMML without container: the Codec mime types are to be used in Skeleton, can this mime type be applied to the CMML Ogg mapping? (It's not plain text in the way that Vorbis mapped into Ogg is exactly audio/vorbis.)<br />
<br />
== .oga - able to rip cd's with all of it's contents also metadata like picture of the album (also separate pictures for each song)? Yes. This is fantastic==<br />
<br />
Can multiple audio streams/files be packed to one oga? <br />
(I mean that there are seperatable flac/speex/vorbis files that can be played separately). <br />
If this is the case then oga is a very good candidate for <br />
ripping a cd with all of it's contents and metadata without loss.<br />
<br />
On a cd there is usually a picture. If you rip the cd to one of Xiph.org's free formats, <br />
it's lost because nothing supports this. <br />
Mayby oga could support this with some extra metadata and pictures in jpeg: <br />
a picture for the .oga and a picture for each number via metadata-system or something like that. <br />
This way someone can easily rip cd's and <br />
keep them in a consistent way on his or her computer. <br />
(One oga per cd, with the same picture as one the cd box, with all the numbers of one cd in oga file that can be played separatelly)<br />
<br />
:Yes, Ogg can carry multiple streams of audio, so you could backup an entire album in Ogg as FLAC or Vorbis and use the .oga extension. In this case alone, it is recommended to use .oga instead of .ogg because .ogg is for a single Vorbis stream file, while .oga requires a Skeleton stream which helps players recognize all the different songs in the file. Confused? One song, .ogg. Multiple songs in one file, .oga. Just make sure that the .oga file has a Skeleton stream. You can verify that with the ogginfo command line tool. And yes, you can also add a JPEG or PNG inside Ogg. I just don't know of any program that supports it, but theoretically it is possible. Just a heads up again, a song and an image are two streams of data, not just one, so again it would use .oga instead of .ogg. This also prevents breaking existing players that don't support embeded images.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:48, 25 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
foobar2000's plugin OggPreview can create as many chained Vorbis streams inside a single Ogg file as you want, and each of them can keep its own metadata.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: This sounds great and about streams of audio: <br />
Can I think of those streams also as separate audio files inside a multistream file? <br />
Because flac for example can also do up to eight streams.<br />
<br />
:::Yes.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
Have also a few other questions:<br />
- Is it possible to have an oga with an album in with a mix of songs in flac, vorbis and speexs?<br />
- Is it possible in oga to have a different picture for each song, stream ?<br />
(For when people make their own albums out of different albums and they want the picture of that album for each song.)<br />
<br />
:Again, yes. Theoretically, there is no limitation in what you can put in Ogg and the order you want it in, but while the format has no such limitations, this is not the case with the software out there. So, the short answer is, for the general public it will look as if Ogg cannot do that which you ask even though it can.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 06:58, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
:: Fantastic, please make sure this is included into the libraries of Xiph.org since applications can easily include them.<br />
<br />
:::To the extent that is possible, the libraries already support embeding of pictures in Ogg. The problem is the programs out there. If you care about this issue and you are either a developer or have money to hire one, you should patch free software programs like VLC to support it. Then hopefully the non-free programs like foobar2000 will follow the lead.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:48, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
::::When is there going to be support for lyrics for audiofiles and in what form (what file extensions will be able to have it and what metadata standards will be able to do it) ?<br />
::::It is currently no way to save those.<br />
<br />
:::::Support in third party player software ? Lyrics for audio files are a lot like movie subtitles - text mapped to a time interval (unless you mean lyrics without the timing, in which case you could store them in Vorbis comments).<br />
:::::For timed lyrics, CMML and Kate can store this in a muxed stream, with the caveat that many Vorbis-only players will choke on a muxed stream.<br />
:::::You still need a way to display those in a player, however, but this is a question for the programmers for whatever player you're using<br />
::::::Hoped for player (or specification) that is able to show text mapped to a time interval without the timing. <br />
::::::Or else the text have to stand in the file two times. One time for mapping and another time for serving as meta data.<br />
:::::::If you want it without the timing, you have to store it in headers, as streaming it will get you the text only as its presentation<br />
:::::::time is reached. You could do that if you were loading from a file, but that's only a special case, so it's best to leave that text<br />
:::::::interleaved with other streams. A player wanting to display the entirety of the lyrics at once would have to, if possible (eg, if not<br />
:::::::streaming), scan the entire file to recover the text. Parsing Ogg packets is relatively fast, so a threaded player could do this while<br />
:::::::starting streaming a file and have the text ready in under a second for a typical song I suppose. Still, this is player specific code<br />
:::::::using whatever codec's library. For instance, if the lyrics are stored as a Kate stream, you could do something like:<br />
::::::: char lyrics[4096]; /* you'll want to dynamically allocate this as you read text */<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_init(&k);<br />
::::::: while (1) {<br />
::::::: if (get_packet(&oy,&os,&init,&op)) break;<br />
::::::: kate_packet_wrap(&kp,op.bytes,op.packet);<br />
::::::: if (kate_high_decode_packetin(&k,&kp,&ev)>0) break;<br />
::::::: if (ev) { strcat(lyrics, ev->text); strcat(lyrics, "\n"); }<br />
::::::: }<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_clear(&k);<br />
:::::::As you see, it's very little code once you have the Ogg stream ready for sync, but this has to be done by each player<br />
:::::::as the get_packet thing will be piggybacking on that player's Ogg read routines.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Timed text (and images) in other profiles than .ogx/.anx please. ==<br />
(Important Note: This is not the same as the topic above this one!)<br />
<br />
The topic above this one asks if Ogg is capable of having such streams. <br />
<br />
This topic is about allowing those streams in certain profiles. <br />
<br />
<br />
(This topic is a bunch of ideas that is meant to help Xiph.org/the formats, <br />
constructive criticism. <br />
I don't say everybody has to do everything I tell here! <br />
I'm not saying it's bad and shouldn't be done either! )<br />
<br />
<br />
The profile list looks very good but raises a few questions about audio and video profiles in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
<br />
audio:<br />
In the oga and axa profile, it looks like timed images and/or text aren't allowed. <br />
In axa there is a CMML for timed text. <br />
But in oga there isn't CMML allowed. <br />
In axa and oga there seems no timed images with OggSpots allowed, even if it's possible because of the skeleton structure in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
There isn't timed text allowed in oga and axa, CMML is a special case. There are not Kate streams possible in both. <br />
The mentioned timed image(s)/text streams would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people would want to have album art and lyrics in their audio files. <br />
This is reasonably basic for audio files and shouldn't be restricted to the application (and other) profiles. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a timed images stream (OggSpots) and a timed text stream. Also add the change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
(Wiki/format documentation/...) <br />
<br />
video:<br />
There doesn't seem to be a timed text stream allowed for ogv profile. <br />
>Ogg Video Profile (a/v in Ogg container)< <br />
And axv only allows a CMML stream. Which is not the same as allowing a timed text stream. <br />
Timed text streams would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people want to have subtitles in their video files. <br />
It's pretty basic for video and shouldn't be restricted to the application profiles. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a text stream. Also add this change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
<br />
Two more special cases of stuff: <br />
Being allowed to use xspf with some kate streams in a file for a timed text stream would be handy in some situations. <br />
Allow/Add embedding/usage of fonts (svgfonts, svg files) in all the profiles that can have text that's being displayed, thus where fonts are used. <br />
This has been brought up on the Kate page. <br />
<br />
Link to OggKate page: [http://wiki.xiph.org/Talk:OggKate]<br />
(scroll to bottom of that page)<br />
<br />
--[[User:Vmol|vmol]] 22 august 2009 17 hours GMT + 1<br />
<br />
== Samples of .oga in the Wild ==<br />
<br />
'''2008-09-04 Update -- another ogg-FLAC ( oga ) file in the wild:''' Brahms' <br />
[http://www.archive.org/details/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16 ''Tragic Overture in D Minor, Op. 81''] to view the item's details page, or you can [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/m3u-Web-streamable.m3u listen losslessly by m3u], orrrr -- Maestro, fanfare please? ... [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/xspf-oga.xspf by first downloading the xspf]. -- [[User:SamN3]] <br />
<br />
Ar Dubya, Reno, NV here -- do we really need the jam-packed (pun) .oga file full of timed lyrics, pix, one-armed jugglers and three-eyed midget strippers (fun as they may be)? Is its capability to carry eight-track FLACs created from DTS-HD Master Audio source material not sufficient? I'm not a developer and don't feel a particularly strong urge to become one to provide non-audio data in the ogg container. As it is, the .oga file can carry my surround sound studio master quality FLACs and render them on-the-fly in my buddy's VLC player on his PC 12,000 miles away. Frankly, I'd like to see more emphasis on perfecting audio technology as opposed to all this other (non-audio) nonsense. By analogy, I'm reminded of the fellow who travels frequently by air, and his pointing out to a companion on a flight, that if you want good food, go to a restaurant. Don't expect a five-course gourmet meal on a plane. That wasn't why it was built.<br />
<br />
For an example of Ogg's doing what she does best, check out my son's Metal band, Blasphemous Creation on the Internet Archive: http://www.archive.org/details/b.c.2008-03-09.flac.studio.demo --[[User:SamN3]]<br />
<br />
:Users do whatever they want with Ogg. We are not going to take that freedom away from them. If you do not see the value of adding a one-armed juggler and three-eyed midget strippers in Ogg someone out there does. You do not have to change your mind about it; just use Ogg in any way you want.<br />
<br />
:And regarding your comment on what emphasis you would prefer seeing, that is an easy thing to do: either volunteer your time to carry on your agenda or pay someone else to do it for you, but do not put your own agenda in front of the other people's. Me, I'd like to see an emphasis on perfecting '''everything''' around here in Xiph. Is that going to happen? Probably not if I and other people don't help, and that's why I'm here, but we are human and can only do as much.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 18:05, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Allow me to put things another way, then: I see the growing emphasis on non-audio material in the ogg container as a disturbing trend.<br />
<br />
::For the record, I have put a *great* deal of time and thought into flac and more recently ogg-FLAC, albeit without the digital equivalent of an employee time card as proof.--[[User:SamN3]]</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:MIME_Types_and_File_Extensions&diff=10507Talk:MIME Types and File Extensions2009-08-22T15:26:25Z<p>Vmol: Timed text (and images) in other profiles than .ogx/.anx please.</p>
<hr />
<div>==Ideas==<br />
I came upon this page looking for a speex encoder but, loosely following your arguments, you guys seem to be arguing about how ogg files should be identified. My advice is to copy what they do with XML.<br />
<br />
audio/ogg -should be used for audio ogg files generally.<br />
audio/vorbis+ogg should be used for vorbis files in an ogg container.<br />
audio/speex+ogg should be used for speex files in an ogg container.<br />
<br />
If you put video files in ogg, use:<br />
<br />
video/ogg<br />
<br />
<br />
If you use ogg for non-media files use:<br />
<br />
application/ogg<br />
<br />
And and so on. As for people associating ogg files with vorbis, that is not surprising given that Vorbis was the only show in town for awhile. But because codecs likes speex are not widely supported yet it is important for people to be able to differenciate between different types of ogg files. Therefore I would use a double exension, like "*.spx.ogg" to identify speex files, and "*.vrbs.ogg" to identify vorbis files.<br />
--[[User:Logomachist|Logomachist]] 19:21, 1 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We have studied this issue and our solution is the best one possible given all variables. Just to counter one of your examples, given that an Ogg file with Vorbis audio, lyrics and album art would be audio/ogg+vorbis+kate+png do you still reckon that would be a good idea? XML is self-contained, it's a single instance; Ogg no: it can be anything. The same argument applies for the double extension idea: .theo.vorb.kate.ogg? Nope.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:54, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .flac - application/flac ==<br />
Why not audio/flac?<br />
<br />
Presumedly to distinguish it from "unencapsulated" flac. I'm not sure this makes sense though. Native flac is a fairly light container, and I suspect the current application/x-flac usage is just an analogy with ogg. OTOH, I don't think anyone's done flac over rtp, where this would be needed, but that is something that's interesting.<br />
<br />
:Edit: I have changed my opinion in this subject. Regardless, Josh agrees with audio/flac in case someone is willing to register it. application/flac was never registered.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:57, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::In a way application/flac to describe a stream which uses FLAC encapsulation is the same as using application/ogg to describe a stream using Ogg encapsulation. I don't really know if this is academic thinking and it's more developer-facing than end-user-facing. The question is what is going to be most consistent (and therefore make sense to someone trying to work it out). Since FLAC in Ogg is natively FLAC encapsulated it may make sense to use the same mime-type for native FLAC as the codec mime type to be used for FLAC in Ogg. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 07:26, 28 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .spx - audio/ogg ==<br />
Why not audio/spx?<br />
To distinguish it from ogg vorbis.<br />
<br />
:audio/speex is only used for Speex RTP or in any other case of "Oggless" Speex. Speex in Ogg, which is a common sight, is audio/ogg just like every other audio-only Ogg file, be it Vorbis, FLAC, Ghost/CELT, MIDI, and even OggPCM.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 07:01, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: Then we still need it for RTP and in native container seems to me.<br />
:: Because of the RTP vorbis and speex should have a unique MIME type right?<br />
:: And also for native container for making correct differences.<br />
:: (One of the greatest mistakes of computer programming is identifying two different things as the same.)<br />
:: Because you're goanna have to register it, best use it as well.<br />
<br />
== ".ogg" should be "application/ogg" ==<br />
<br />
I can't accept that ".ogg" becomes Vorbis I only extension.<br />
Ogg is not a codec. It is the container of codecs.<br />
That change will be missleading people.<br />
<br />
".ogg" has been defined as "application/ogg" and already used as Theora+Vorbis.<br />
Redefining ".ogg" as Vorbis I only extension and changing MIME type to "audio/ogg" is not backward-compatible.<br />
Changing spec should be more carefully.<br />
If possible, should not change fixed spec. (I know becoming RFC does not mean fixed spec. But it is treated as fixed spec) --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 07:31, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We understand your concern, but application/ogg isn't about audio, and people out there have wrongly associated .ogg with Vorbis only, making it harder for other codecs like Theora to succeed because of the file extension. They do not understand that Ogg is a container; they think Ogg is Vorbis. Although this proposal is somewhat radical and some people aren't 100% happy with it, it's for the best. video/ogg and audio/ogg will also be much useful now with the <video> and <audio> elements of HTML 5.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:04, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::".ogv" and ".oga" may be useful. I can accept this. But changing the definition of ".ogg" is really needed? I can't find the necessity of this. It breaks backward-compatibility. No one will be happy with this change... --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 13:56, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:::We are not breaking backwards-comaptibility. That's why Vorbis and Speex will be allowed to use .ogg and .spx instead of .oga. The only thing that may break backwards-compatibility is deprecating application/ogg in favor od video/ogg and audio/ogg. That and Theora files, but since there are no Theora hardware players that we know of, existing Theora files may be renamed to .ogv easily, making compatibility with previous files a non-issue. Backwards-compatibility was seriously considered during the creation of this proposal. We are not breaking it.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:53, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::Ummmmm..... I think ".ogg" re-definition is not necessary. My best resolution is simply adding the new ext definitions to RFC:<br />
::::* ".ogg" is application/ogg (as RFC3534)<br />
::::* define new ext and MIME : ".ogx", ".oga", ".ogv", etc...<br />
::::* Use of new extensions is recommended.<br />
::::* Official tools are using new ext (except .ogg for Vorbis I?)<br />
::::Changing of ".ogg"'s MIME type is really necessary? --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 16:35, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::: Want also to see more consistent behaviour like changing name of vorbis into something like n/m/l/w-orbis.<br />
::::: And mime type is then audio/ n/m/l/w-orbis <br />
::::: ogx is a very good way to overcome problems but be sure to let it have an internal version number for making changes later<br />
::::: Because of RTP and native containers codecs better have unique MIME-types, always:<br />
::::: Changes: vorbis: still .vorbis would be better(change name to something that doesn't starts with a v, nor, xor or g)<br />
::::: This solves the problem with backwards compatability because .ogg isn't used. <br />
::::: <br />
::::: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/vorbis, speex: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/speex<br />
::::: (audio/ogg with everything on it is being used for .oga and that <br />
::::: stands for ogg audio is very consistent and easy to see)<br />
::::: It has to be registered anyway for RTP !!!! <br />
::::: (It wouldn't be such a big assigment now to do that, but over a year or two, <br />
::::: you can't go back anymore because of compatability!!!)<br />
:::::<br />
::::: And people think that vorbis is a video format because it starts with a v.<br />
::::: So they look around if their player supports vorbis video but they find out only audio is supported.<br />
::::: Mad about getting wrong information and quit ogg for an alternative mostly.<br />
::::: Please change the name or create a new format that is essentially vorbis with another name. <br />
::::: (And also add new metadata formats in to have a reason for people to update.)<br />
<br />
==text/cmml==<br />
text/cmml for CMML without container: the Codec mime types are to be used in Skeleton, can this mime type be applied to the CMML Ogg mapping? (It's not plain text in the way that Vorbis mapped into Ogg is exactly audio/vorbis.)<br />
<br />
== .oga - able to rip cd's with all of it's contents also metadata like picture of the album (also separate pictures for each song)? Yes. This is fantastic==<br />
<br />
Can multiple audio streams/files be packed to one oga? <br />
(I mean that there are seperatable flac/speex/vorbis files that can be played separately). <br />
If this is the case then oga is a very good candidate for <br />
ripping a cd with all of it's contents and metadata without loss.<br />
<br />
On a cd there is usually a picture. If you rip the cd to one of Xiph.org's free formats, <br />
it's lost because nothing supports this. <br />
Mayby oga could support this with some extra metadata and pictures in jpeg: <br />
a picture for the .oga and a picture for each number via metadata-system or something like that. <br />
This way someone can easily rip cd's and <br />
keep them in a consistent way on his or her computer. <br />
(One oga per cd, with the same picture as one the cd box, with all the numbers of one cd in oga file that can be played separatelly)<br />
<br />
:Yes, Ogg can carry multiple streams of audio, so you could backup an entire album in Ogg as FLAC or Vorbis and use the .oga extension. In this case alone, it is recommended to use .oga instead of .ogg because .ogg is for a single Vorbis stream file, while .oga requires a Skeleton stream which helps players recognize all the different songs in the file. Confused? One song, .ogg. Multiple songs in one file, .oga. Just make sure that the .oga file has a Skeleton stream. You can verify that with the ogginfo command line tool. And yes, you can also add a JPEG or PNG inside Ogg. I just don't know of any program that supports it, but theoretically it is possible. Just a heads up again, a song and an image are two streams of data, not just one, so again it would use .oga instead of .ogg. This also prevents breaking existing players that don't support embeded images.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:48, 25 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
foobar2000's plugin OggPreview can create as many chained Vorbis streams inside a single Ogg file as you want, and each of them can keep its own metadata.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: This sounds great and about streams of audio: <br />
Can I think of those streams also as separate audio files inside a multistream file? <br />
Because flac for example can also do up to eight streams.<br />
<br />
:::Yes.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
Have also a few other questions:<br />
- Is it possible to have an oga with an album in with a mix of songs in flac, vorbis and speexs?<br />
- Is it possible in oga to have a different picture for each song, stream ?<br />
(For when people make their own albums out of different albums and they want the picture of that album for each song.)<br />
<br />
:Again, yes. Theoretically, there is no limitation in what you can put in Ogg and the order you want it in, but while the format has no such limitations, this is not the case with the software out there. So, the short answer is, for the general public it will look as if Ogg cannot do that which you ask even though it can.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 06:58, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
:: Fantastic, please make sure this is included into the libraries of Xiph.org since applications can easily include them.<br />
<br />
:::To the extent that is possible, the libraries already support embeding of pictures in Ogg. The problem is the programs out there. If you care about this issue and you are either a developer or have money to hire one, you should patch free software programs like VLC to support it. Then hopefully the non-free programs like foobar2000 will follow the lead.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:48, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
::::When is there going to be support for lyrics for audiofiles and in what form (what file extensions will be able to have it and what metadata standards will be able to do it) ?<br />
::::It is currently no way to save those.<br />
<br />
:::::Support in third party player software ? Lyrics for audio files are a lot like movie subtitles - text mapped to a time interval (unless you mean lyrics without the timing, in which case you could store them in Vorbis comments).<br />
:::::For timed lyrics, CMML and Kate can store this in a muxed stream, with the caveat that many Vorbis-only players will choke on a muxed stream.<br />
:::::You still need a way to display those in a player, however, but this is a question for the programmers for whatever player you're using<br />
::::::Hoped for player (or specification) that is able to show text mapped to a time interval without the timing. <br />
::::::Or else the text have to stand in the file two times. One time for mapping and another time for serving as meta data.<br />
:::::::If you want it without the timing, you have to store it in headers, as streaming it will get you the text only as its presentation<br />
:::::::time is reached. You could do that if you were loading from a file, but that's only a special case, so it's best to leave that text<br />
:::::::interleaved with other streams. A player wanting to display the entirety of the lyrics at once would have to, if possible (eg, if not<br />
:::::::streaming), scan the entire file to recover the text. Parsing Ogg packets is relatively fast, so a threaded player could do this while<br />
:::::::starting streaming a file and have the text ready in under a second for a typical song I suppose. Still, this is player specific code<br />
:::::::using whatever codec's library. For instance, if the lyrics are stored as a Kate stream, you could do something like:<br />
::::::: char lyrics[4096]; /* you'll want to dynamically allocate this as you read text */<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_init(&k);<br />
::::::: while (1) {<br />
::::::: if (get_packet(&oy,&os,&init,&op)) break;<br />
::::::: kate_packet_wrap(&kp,op.bytes,op.packet);<br />
::::::: if (kate_high_decode_packetin(&k,&kp,&ev)>0) break;<br />
::::::: if (ev) { strcat(lyrics, ev->text); strcat(lyrics, "\n"); }<br />
::::::: }<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_clear(&k);<br />
:::::::As you see, it's very little code once you have the Ogg stream ready for sync, but this has to be done by each player<br />
:::::::as the get_packet thing will be piggybacking on that player's Ogg read routines.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Timed text (and images) in other profiles than .ogx/.anx please. ==<br />
(Important Note: This is not the same as the topic above this one!)<br />
<br />
The topic above this one asks if Ogg is capable of having such streams. <br />
<br />
This topic is about allowing those streams in certain profiles. <br />
<br />
<br />
(This topic is a bunch of ideas that is meant to help Xiph.org/the formats, <br />
constructive criticism. <br />
I don't say everybody has to do everything I tell here! <br />
I'm not saying it's bad and shouldn't be done either! )<br />
<br />
<br />
The profile list looks very good but raises a few questions about audio and video profiles in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
<br />
audio:<br />
In the oga and axa profile, it looks like timed images and/or text aren't allowed. <br />
In axa there is a CMML for timed text. <br />
But in oga there isn't CMML allowed. <br />
In axa and oga there seems no timed images with OggSpots allowed, even if it's possible because of the skeleton structure in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
There isn't timed text allowed in oga and axa, CMML is a special case. There are not Kate streams possible in both. <br />
The mentioned timed image(s)/text streams would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people would want to have album art and lyrics in their audio files. <br />
This is reasonably basic for audio files and shouldn't be restricted to the application (and other) profiles. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a timed images stream (OggSpots) and a timed text stream. Also add the change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
(Wiki/format documentation/...) <br />
<br />
video:<br />
There doesn't seem to be a timed text stream allowed for ogv profile. <br />
>Ogg Video Profile (a/v in Ogg container)< <br />
And axv only allows a CMML stream. Which is not the same as allowing a timed text stream. <br />
The mentioned timed text stream would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people would want to have subtitles in their video files. <br />
It's pretty basic for video and shouldn't be restricted to the application profiles. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a text stream. Also add this change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
<br />
Two more special cases of stuff: <br />
Being allowed to use xspf with some kate streams in a file for a timed text stream would be handy in some situations. <br />
Allow/Add embedding/usage of fonts (svgfonts, svg files) in all the profiles that can have text that's being displayed, thus where fonts are used. <br />
This has been brought up on the Kate page. <br />
<br />
Link to OggKate page: [http://wiki.xiph.org/Talk:OggKate]<br />
(scroll to bottom of that page)<br />
<br />
--[[User:Vmol|vmol]] 22 august 2009 17 hours GMT + 1<br />
<br />
== Samples of .oga in the Wild ==<br />
<br />
'''2008-09-04 Update -- another ogg-FLAC ( oga ) file in the wild:''' Brahms' <br />
[http://www.archive.org/details/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16 ''Tragic Overture in D Minor, Op. 81''] to view the item's details page, or you can [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/m3u-Web-streamable.m3u listen losslessly by m3u], orrrr -- Maestro, fanfare please? ... [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/xspf-oga.xspf by first downloading the xspf]. -- [[User:SamN3]] <br />
<br />
Ar Dubya, Reno, NV here -- do we really need the jam-packed (pun) .oga file full of timed lyrics, pix, one-armed jugglers and three-eyed midget strippers (fun as they may be)? Is its capability to carry eight-track FLACs created from DTS-HD Master Audio source material not sufficient? I'm not a developer and don't feel a particularly strong urge to become one to provide non-audio data in the ogg container. As it is, the .oga file can carry my surround sound studio master quality FLACs and render them on-the-fly in my buddy's VLC player on his PC 12,000 miles away. Frankly, I'd like to see more emphasis on perfecting audio technology as opposed to all this other (non-audio) nonsense. By analogy, I'm reminded of the fellow who travels frequently by air, and his pointing out to a companion on a flight, that if you want good food, go to a restaurant. Don't expect a five-course gourmet meal on a plane. That wasn't why it was built.<br />
<br />
For an example of Ogg's doing what she does best, check out my son's Metal band, Blasphemous Creation on the Internet Archive: http://www.archive.org/details/b.c.2008-03-09.flac.studio.demo --[[User:SamN3]]<br />
<br />
:Users do whatever they want with Ogg. We are not going to take that freedom away from them. If you do not see the value of adding a one-armed juggler and three-eyed midget strippers in Ogg someone out there does. You do not have to change your mind about it; just use Ogg in any way you want.<br />
<br />
:And regarding your comment on what emphasis you would prefer seeing, that is an easy thing to do: either volunteer your time to carry on your agenda or pay someone else to do it for you, but do not put your own agenda in front of the other people's. Me, I'd like to see an emphasis on perfecting '''everything''' around here in Xiph. Is that going to happen? Probably not if I and other people don't help, and that's why I'm here, but we are human and can only do as much.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 18:05, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Allow me to put things another way, then: I see the growing emphasis on non-audio material in the ogg container as a disturbing trend.<br />
<br />
::For the record, I have put a *great* deal of time and thought into flac and more recently ogg-FLAC, albeit without the digital equivalent of an employee time card as proof.--[[User:SamN3]]</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:MIME_Types_and_File_Extensions&diff=10506Talk:MIME Types and File Extensions2009-08-22T15:24:29Z<p>Vmol: /* Timed text (and images) not in other profiles than .ogx/.anx */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Ideas==<br />
I came upon this page looking for a speex encoder but, loosely following your arguments, you guys seem to be arguing about how ogg files should be identified. My advice is to copy what they do with XML.<br />
<br />
audio/ogg -should be used for audio ogg files generally.<br />
audio/vorbis+ogg should be used for vorbis files in an ogg container.<br />
audio/speex+ogg should be used for speex files in an ogg container.<br />
<br />
If you put video files in ogg, use:<br />
<br />
video/ogg<br />
<br />
<br />
If you use ogg for non-media files use:<br />
<br />
application/ogg<br />
<br />
And and so on. As for people associating ogg files with vorbis, that is not surprising given that Vorbis was the only show in town for awhile. But because codecs likes speex are not widely supported yet it is important for people to be able to differenciate between different types of ogg files. Therefore I would use a double exension, like "*.spx.ogg" to identify speex files, and "*.vrbs.ogg" to identify vorbis files.<br />
--[[User:Logomachist|Logomachist]] 19:21, 1 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We have studied this issue and our solution is the best one possible given all variables. Just to counter one of your examples, given that an Ogg file with Vorbis audio, lyrics and album art would be audio/ogg+vorbis+kate+png do you still reckon that would be a good idea? XML is self-contained, it's a single instance; Ogg no: it can be anything. The same argument applies for the double extension idea: .theo.vorb.kate.ogg? Nope.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:54, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .flac - application/flac ==<br />
Why not audio/flac?<br />
<br />
Presumedly to distinguish it from "unencapsulated" flac. I'm not sure this makes sense though. Native flac is a fairly light container, and I suspect the current application/x-flac usage is just an analogy with ogg. OTOH, I don't think anyone's done flac over rtp, where this would be needed, but that is something that's interesting.<br />
<br />
:Edit: I have changed my opinion in this subject. Regardless, Josh agrees with audio/flac in case someone is willing to register it. application/flac was never registered.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:57, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::In a way application/flac to describe a stream which uses FLAC encapsulation is the same as using application/ogg to describe a stream using Ogg encapsulation. I don't really know if this is academic thinking and it's more developer-facing than end-user-facing. The question is what is going to be most consistent (and therefore make sense to someone trying to work it out). Since FLAC in Ogg is natively FLAC encapsulated it may make sense to use the same mime-type for native FLAC as the codec mime type to be used for FLAC in Ogg. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 07:26, 28 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .spx - audio/ogg ==<br />
Why not audio/spx?<br />
To distinguish it from ogg vorbis.<br />
<br />
:audio/speex is only used for Speex RTP or in any other case of "Oggless" Speex. Speex in Ogg, which is a common sight, is audio/ogg just like every other audio-only Ogg file, be it Vorbis, FLAC, Ghost/CELT, MIDI, and even OggPCM.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 07:01, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: Then we still need it for RTP and in native container seems to me.<br />
:: Because of the RTP vorbis and speex should have a unique MIME type right?<br />
:: And also for native container for making correct differences.<br />
:: (One of the greatest mistakes of computer programming is identifying two different things as the same.)<br />
:: Because you're goanna have to register it, best use it as well.<br />
<br />
== ".ogg" should be "application/ogg" ==<br />
<br />
I can't accept that ".ogg" becomes Vorbis I only extension.<br />
Ogg is not a codec. It is the container of codecs.<br />
That change will be missleading people.<br />
<br />
".ogg" has been defined as "application/ogg" and already used as Theora+Vorbis.<br />
Redefining ".ogg" as Vorbis I only extension and changing MIME type to "audio/ogg" is not backward-compatible.<br />
Changing spec should be more carefully.<br />
If possible, should not change fixed spec. (I know becoming RFC does not mean fixed spec. But it is treated as fixed spec) --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 07:31, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We understand your concern, but application/ogg isn't about audio, and people out there have wrongly associated .ogg with Vorbis only, making it harder for other codecs like Theora to succeed because of the file extension. They do not understand that Ogg is a container; they think Ogg is Vorbis. Although this proposal is somewhat radical and some people aren't 100% happy with it, it's for the best. video/ogg and audio/ogg will also be much useful now with the <video> and <audio> elements of HTML 5.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:04, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::".ogv" and ".oga" may be useful. I can accept this. But changing the definition of ".ogg" is really needed? I can't find the necessity of this. It breaks backward-compatibility. No one will be happy with this change... --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 13:56, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:::We are not breaking backwards-comaptibility. That's why Vorbis and Speex will be allowed to use .ogg and .spx instead of .oga. The only thing that may break backwards-compatibility is deprecating application/ogg in favor od video/ogg and audio/ogg. That and Theora files, but since there are no Theora hardware players that we know of, existing Theora files may be renamed to .ogv easily, making compatibility with previous files a non-issue. Backwards-compatibility was seriously considered during the creation of this proposal. We are not breaking it.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:53, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::Ummmmm..... I think ".ogg" re-definition is not necessary. My best resolution is simply adding the new ext definitions to RFC:<br />
::::* ".ogg" is application/ogg (as RFC3534)<br />
::::* define new ext and MIME : ".ogx", ".oga", ".ogv", etc...<br />
::::* Use of new extensions is recommended.<br />
::::* Official tools are using new ext (except .ogg for Vorbis I?)<br />
::::Changing of ".ogg"'s MIME type is really necessary? --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 16:35, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::: Want also to see more consistent behaviour like changing name of vorbis into something like n/m/l/w-orbis.<br />
::::: And mime type is then audio/ n/m/l/w-orbis <br />
::::: ogx is a very good way to overcome problems but be sure to let it have an internal version number for making changes later<br />
::::: Because of RTP and native containers codecs better have unique MIME-types, always:<br />
::::: Changes: vorbis: still .vorbis would be better(change name to something that doesn't starts with a v, nor, xor or g)<br />
::::: This solves the problem with backwards compatability because .ogg isn't used. <br />
::::: <br />
::::: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/vorbis, speex: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/speex<br />
::::: (audio/ogg with everything on it is being used for .oga and that <br />
::::: stands for ogg audio is very consistent and easy to see)<br />
::::: It has to be registered anyway for RTP !!!! <br />
::::: (It wouldn't be such a big assigment now to do that, but over a year or two, <br />
::::: you can't go back anymore because of compatability!!!)<br />
:::::<br />
::::: And people think that vorbis is a video format because it starts with a v.<br />
::::: So they look around if their player supports vorbis video but they find out only audio is supported.<br />
::::: Mad about getting wrong information and quit ogg for an alternative mostly.<br />
::::: Please change the name or create a new format that is essentially vorbis with another name. <br />
::::: (And also add new metadata formats in to have a reason for people to update.)<br />
<br />
==text/cmml==<br />
text/cmml for CMML without container: the Codec mime types are to be used in Skeleton, can this mime type be applied to the CMML Ogg mapping? (It's not plain text in the way that Vorbis mapped into Ogg is exactly audio/vorbis.)<br />
<br />
== .oga - able to rip cd's with all of it's contents also metadata like picture of the album (also separate pictures for each song)? Yes. This is fantastic==<br />
<br />
Can multiple audio streams/files be packed to one oga? <br />
(I mean that there are seperatable flac/speex/vorbis files that can be played separately). <br />
If this is the case then oga is a very good candidate for <br />
ripping a cd with all of it's contents and metadata without loss.<br />
<br />
On a cd there is usually a picture. If you rip the cd to one of Xiph.org's free formats, <br />
it's lost because nothing supports this. <br />
Mayby oga could support this with some extra metadata and pictures in jpeg: <br />
a picture for the .oga and a picture for each number via metadata-system or something like that. <br />
This way someone can easily rip cd's and <br />
keep them in a consistent way on his or her computer. <br />
(One oga per cd, with the same picture as one the cd box, with all the numbers of one cd in oga file that can be played separatelly)<br />
<br />
:Yes, Ogg can carry multiple streams of audio, so you could backup an entire album in Ogg as FLAC or Vorbis and use the .oga extension. In this case alone, it is recommended to use .oga instead of .ogg because .ogg is for a single Vorbis stream file, while .oga requires a Skeleton stream which helps players recognize all the different songs in the file. Confused? One song, .ogg. Multiple songs in one file, .oga. Just make sure that the .oga file has a Skeleton stream. You can verify that with the ogginfo command line tool. And yes, you can also add a JPEG or PNG inside Ogg. I just don't know of any program that supports it, but theoretically it is possible. Just a heads up again, a song and an image are two streams of data, not just one, so again it would use .oga instead of .ogg. This also prevents breaking existing players that don't support embeded images.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:48, 25 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
foobar2000's plugin OggPreview can create as many chained Vorbis streams inside a single Ogg file as you want, and each of them can keep its own metadata.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: This sounds great and about streams of audio: <br />
Can I think of those streams also as separate audio files inside a multistream file? <br />
Because flac for example can also do up to eight streams.<br />
<br />
:::Yes.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
Have also a few other questions:<br />
- Is it possible to have an oga with an album in with a mix of songs in flac, vorbis and speexs?<br />
- Is it possible in oga to have a different picture for each song, stream ?<br />
(For when people make their own albums out of different albums and they want the picture of that album for each song.)<br />
<br />
:Again, yes. Theoretically, there is no limitation in what you can put in Ogg and the order you want it in, but while the format has no such limitations, this is not the case with the software out there. So, the short answer is, for the general public it will look as if Ogg cannot do that which you ask even though it can.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 06:58, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
:: Fantastic, please make sure this is included into the libraries of Xiph.org since applications can easily include them.<br />
<br />
:::To the extent that is possible, the libraries already support embeding of pictures in Ogg. The problem is the programs out there. If you care about this issue and you are either a developer or have money to hire one, you should patch free software programs like VLC to support it. Then hopefully the non-free programs like foobar2000 will follow the lead.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:48, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
::::When is there going to be support for lyrics for audiofiles and in what form (what file extensions will be able to have it and what metadata standards will be able to do it) ?<br />
::::It is currently no way to save those.<br />
<br />
:::::Support in third party player software ? Lyrics for audio files are a lot like movie subtitles - text mapped to a time interval (unless you mean lyrics without the timing, in which case you could store them in Vorbis comments).<br />
:::::For timed lyrics, CMML and Kate can store this in a muxed stream, with the caveat that many Vorbis-only players will choke on a muxed stream.<br />
:::::You still need a way to display those in a player, however, but this is a question for the programmers for whatever player you're using<br />
::::::Hoped for player (or specification) that is able to show text mapped to a time interval without the timing. <br />
::::::Or else the text have to stand in the file two times. One time for mapping and another time for serving as meta data.<br />
:::::::If you want it without the timing, you have to store it in headers, as streaming it will get you the text only as its presentation<br />
:::::::time is reached. You could do that if you were loading from a file, but that's only a special case, so it's best to leave that text<br />
:::::::interleaved with other streams. A player wanting to display the entirety of the lyrics at once would have to, if possible (eg, if not<br />
:::::::streaming), scan the entire file to recover the text. Parsing Ogg packets is relatively fast, so a threaded player could do this while<br />
:::::::starting streaming a file and have the text ready in under a second for a typical song I suppose. Still, this is player specific code<br />
:::::::using whatever codec's library. For instance, if the lyrics are stored as a Kate stream, you could do something like:<br />
::::::: char lyrics[4096]; /* you'll want to dynamically allocate this as you read text */<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_init(&k);<br />
::::::: while (1) {<br />
::::::: if (get_packet(&oy,&os,&init,&op)) break;<br />
::::::: kate_packet_wrap(&kp,op.bytes,op.packet);<br />
::::::: if (kate_high_decode_packetin(&k,&kp,&ev)>0) break;<br />
::::::: if (ev) { strcat(lyrics, ev->text); strcat(lyrics, "\n"); }<br />
::::::: }<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_clear(&k);<br />
:::::::As you see, it's very little code once you have the Ogg stream ready for sync, but this has to be done by each player<br />
:::::::as the get_packet thing will be piggybacking on that player's Ogg read routines.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Add Timed text (and images) in other profiles than .ogx/.anx ==<br />
(Important Note: This is not the same as the topic above this one!)<br />
<br />
The topic above this one asks if Ogg is capable of having such streams. <br />
<br />
This topic is about allowing those streams in certain profiles. <br />
<br />
<br />
(This topic is a bunch of ideas that is meant to help Xiph.org/the formats, <br />
constructive criticism. <br />
I don't say everybody has to do everything I tell here! <br />
I'm not saying it's bad and shouldn't be done either! )<br />
<br />
<br />
The profile list looks very good but raises a few questions about audio and video profiles in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
<br />
audio:<br />
In the oga and axa profile, it looks like timed images and/or text aren't allowed. <br />
In axa there is a CMML for timed text. <br />
But in oga there isn't CMML allowed. <br />
In axa and oga there seems no timed images with OggSpots allowed, even if it's possible because of the skeleton structure in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
There isn't timed text allowed in oga and axa, CMML is a special case. There are not Kate streams possible in both. <br />
The mentioned timed image(s)/text streams would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people would want to have album art and lyrics in their audio files. <br />
This is reasonably basic for audio files and shouldn't be restricted to the application (and other) profiles. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a timed images stream (OggSpots) and a timed text stream. Also add the change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
(Wiki/format documentation/...) <br />
<br />
video:<br />
There doesn't seem to be a timed text stream allowed for ogv profile. <br />
>Ogg Video Profile (a/v in Ogg container)< <br />
And axv only allows a CMML stream. Which is not the same as allowing a timed text stream. <br />
The mentioned timed text stream would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people would want to have subtitles in their video files. <br />
It's pretty basic for video and shouldn't be restricted to the application profiles. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a text stream. Also add this change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
<br />
Two more special cases of stuff: <br />
Being allowed to use xspf with some kate streams in a file for a timed text stream would be handy in some situations. <br />
Allow/Add embedding/usage of fonts (svgfonts, svg files) in all the profiles that can have text that's being displayed, thus where fonts are used. <br />
This has been brought up on the Kate page. <br />
<br />
Link to OggKate page: [http://wiki.xiph.org/Talk:OggKate]<br />
(scroll to bottom of that page)<br />
<br />
--[[User:Vmol|vmol]] 22 august 2009 17 hours GMT + 1<br />
<br />
== Samples of .oga in the Wild ==<br />
<br />
'''2008-09-04 Update -- another ogg-FLAC ( oga ) file in the wild:''' Brahms' <br />
[http://www.archive.org/details/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16 ''Tragic Overture in D Minor, Op. 81''] to view the item's details page, or you can [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/m3u-Web-streamable.m3u listen losslessly by m3u], orrrr -- Maestro, fanfare please? ... [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/xspf-oga.xspf by first downloading the xspf]. -- [[User:SamN3]] <br />
<br />
Ar Dubya, Reno, NV here -- do we really need the jam-packed (pun) .oga file full of timed lyrics, pix, one-armed jugglers and three-eyed midget strippers (fun as they may be)? Is its capability to carry eight-track FLACs created from DTS-HD Master Audio source material not sufficient? I'm not a developer and don't feel a particularly strong urge to become one to provide non-audio data in the ogg container. As it is, the .oga file can carry my surround sound studio master quality FLACs and render them on-the-fly in my buddy's VLC player on his PC 12,000 miles away. Frankly, I'd like to see more emphasis on perfecting audio technology as opposed to all this other (non-audio) nonsense. By analogy, I'm reminded of the fellow who travels frequently by air, and his pointing out to a companion on a flight, that if you want good food, go to a restaurant. Don't expect a five-course gourmet meal on a plane. That wasn't why it was built.<br />
<br />
For an example of Ogg's doing what she does best, check out my son's Metal band, Blasphemous Creation on the Internet Archive: http://www.archive.org/details/b.c.2008-03-09.flac.studio.demo --[[User:SamN3]]<br />
<br />
:Users do whatever they want with Ogg. We are not going to take that freedom away from them. If you do not see the value of adding a one-armed juggler and three-eyed midget strippers in Ogg someone out there does. You do not have to change your mind about it; just use Ogg in any way you want.<br />
<br />
:And regarding your comment on what emphasis you would prefer seeing, that is an easy thing to do: either volunteer your time to carry on your agenda or pay someone else to do it for you, but do not put your own agenda in front of the other people's. Me, I'd like to see an emphasis on perfecting '''everything''' around here in Xiph. Is that going to happen? Probably not if I and other people don't help, and that's why I'm here, but we are human and can only do as much.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 18:05, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Allow me to put things another way, then: I see the growing emphasis on non-audio material in the ogg container as a disturbing trend.<br />
<br />
::For the record, I have put a *great* deal of time and thought into flac and more recently ogg-FLAC, albeit without the digital equivalent of an employee time card as proof.--[[User:SamN3]]</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:MIME_Types_and_File_Extensions&diff=10505Talk:MIME Types and File Extensions2009-08-22T15:22:17Z<p>Vmol: /* Timed text (and images) not in other profiles than .ogx/.anx */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Ideas==<br />
I came upon this page looking for a speex encoder but, loosely following your arguments, you guys seem to be arguing about how ogg files should be identified. My advice is to copy what they do with XML.<br />
<br />
audio/ogg -should be used for audio ogg files generally.<br />
audio/vorbis+ogg should be used for vorbis files in an ogg container.<br />
audio/speex+ogg should be used for speex files in an ogg container.<br />
<br />
If you put video files in ogg, use:<br />
<br />
video/ogg<br />
<br />
<br />
If you use ogg for non-media files use:<br />
<br />
application/ogg<br />
<br />
And and so on. As for people associating ogg files with vorbis, that is not surprising given that Vorbis was the only show in town for awhile. But because codecs likes speex are not widely supported yet it is important for people to be able to differenciate between different types of ogg files. Therefore I would use a double exension, like "*.spx.ogg" to identify speex files, and "*.vrbs.ogg" to identify vorbis files.<br />
--[[User:Logomachist|Logomachist]] 19:21, 1 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We have studied this issue and our solution is the best one possible given all variables. Just to counter one of your examples, given that an Ogg file with Vorbis audio, lyrics and album art would be audio/ogg+vorbis+kate+png do you still reckon that would be a good idea? XML is self-contained, it's a single instance; Ogg no: it can be anything. The same argument applies for the double extension idea: .theo.vorb.kate.ogg? Nope.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:54, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .flac - application/flac ==<br />
Why not audio/flac?<br />
<br />
Presumedly to distinguish it from "unencapsulated" flac. I'm not sure this makes sense though. Native flac is a fairly light container, and I suspect the current application/x-flac usage is just an analogy with ogg. OTOH, I don't think anyone's done flac over rtp, where this would be needed, but that is something that's interesting.<br />
<br />
:Edit: I have changed my opinion in this subject. Regardless, Josh agrees with audio/flac in case someone is willing to register it. application/flac was never registered.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:57, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::In a way application/flac to describe a stream which uses FLAC encapsulation is the same as using application/ogg to describe a stream using Ogg encapsulation. I don't really know if this is academic thinking and it's more developer-facing than end-user-facing. The question is what is going to be most consistent (and therefore make sense to someone trying to work it out). Since FLAC in Ogg is natively FLAC encapsulated it may make sense to use the same mime-type for native FLAC as the codec mime type to be used for FLAC in Ogg. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 07:26, 28 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .spx - audio/ogg ==<br />
Why not audio/spx?<br />
To distinguish it from ogg vorbis.<br />
<br />
:audio/speex is only used for Speex RTP or in any other case of "Oggless" Speex. Speex in Ogg, which is a common sight, is audio/ogg just like every other audio-only Ogg file, be it Vorbis, FLAC, Ghost/CELT, MIDI, and even OggPCM.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 07:01, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: Then we still need it for RTP and in native container seems to me.<br />
:: Because of the RTP vorbis and speex should have a unique MIME type right?<br />
:: And also for native container for making correct differences.<br />
:: (One of the greatest mistakes of computer programming is identifying two different things as the same.)<br />
:: Because you're goanna have to register it, best use it as well.<br />
<br />
== ".ogg" should be "application/ogg" ==<br />
<br />
I can't accept that ".ogg" becomes Vorbis I only extension.<br />
Ogg is not a codec. It is the container of codecs.<br />
That change will be missleading people.<br />
<br />
".ogg" has been defined as "application/ogg" and already used as Theora+Vorbis.<br />
Redefining ".ogg" as Vorbis I only extension and changing MIME type to "audio/ogg" is not backward-compatible.<br />
Changing spec should be more carefully.<br />
If possible, should not change fixed spec. (I know becoming RFC does not mean fixed spec. But it is treated as fixed spec) --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 07:31, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We understand your concern, but application/ogg isn't about audio, and people out there have wrongly associated .ogg with Vorbis only, making it harder for other codecs like Theora to succeed because of the file extension. They do not understand that Ogg is a container; they think Ogg is Vorbis. Although this proposal is somewhat radical and some people aren't 100% happy with it, it's for the best. video/ogg and audio/ogg will also be much useful now with the <video> and <audio> elements of HTML 5.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:04, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::".ogv" and ".oga" may be useful. I can accept this. But changing the definition of ".ogg" is really needed? I can't find the necessity of this. It breaks backward-compatibility. No one will be happy with this change... --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 13:56, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:::We are not breaking backwards-comaptibility. That's why Vorbis and Speex will be allowed to use .ogg and .spx instead of .oga. The only thing that may break backwards-compatibility is deprecating application/ogg in favor od video/ogg and audio/ogg. That and Theora files, but since there are no Theora hardware players that we know of, existing Theora files may be renamed to .ogv easily, making compatibility with previous files a non-issue. Backwards-compatibility was seriously considered during the creation of this proposal. We are not breaking it.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:53, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::Ummmmm..... I think ".ogg" re-definition is not necessary. My best resolution is simply adding the new ext definitions to RFC:<br />
::::* ".ogg" is application/ogg (as RFC3534)<br />
::::* define new ext and MIME : ".ogx", ".oga", ".ogv", etc...<br />
::::* Use of new extensions is recommended.<br />
::::* Official tools are using new ext (except .ogg for Vorbis I?)<br />
::::Changing of ".ogg"'s MIME type is really necessary? --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 16:35, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::: Want also to see more consistent behaviour like changing name of vorbis into something like n/m/l/w-orbis.<br />
::::: And mime type is then audio/ n/m/l/w-orbis <br />
::::: ogx is a very good way to overcome problems but be sure to let it have an internal version number for making changes later<br />
::::: Because of RTP and native containers codecs better have unique MIME-types, always:<br />
::::: Changes: vorbis: still .vorbis would be better(change name to something that doesn't starts with a v, nor, xor or g)<br />
::::: This solves the problem with backwards compatability because .ogg isn't used. <br />
::::: <br />
::::: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/vorbis, speex: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/speex<br />
::::: (audio/ogg with everything on it is being used for .oga and that <br />
::::: stands for ogg audio is very consistent and easy to see)<br />
::::: It has to be registered anyway for RTP !!!! <br />
::::: (It wouldn't be such a big assigment now to do that, but over a year or two, <br />
::::: you can't go back anymore because of compatability!!!)<br />
:::::<br />
::::: And people think that vorbis is a video format because it starts with a v.<br />
::::: So they look around if their player supports vorbis video but they find out only audio is supported.<br />
::::: Mad about getting wrong information and quit ogg for an alternative mostly.<br />
::::: Please change the name or create a new format that is essentially vorbis with another name. <br />
::::: (And also add new metadata formats in to have a reason for people to update.)<br />
<br />
==text/cmml==<br />
text/cmml for CMML without container: the Codec mime types are to be used in Skeleton, can this mime type be applied to the CMML Ogg mapping? (It's not plain text in the way that Vorbis mapped into Ogg is exactly audio/vorbis.)<br />
<br />
== .oga - able to rip cd's with all of it's contents also metadata like picture of the album (also separate pictures for each song)? Yes. This is fantastic==<br />
<br />
Can multiple audio streams/files be packed to one oga? <br />
(I mean that there are seperatable flac/speex/vorbis files that can be played separately). <br />
If this is the case then oga is a very good candidate for <br />
ripping a cd with all of it's contents and metadata without loss.<br />
<br />
On a cd there is usually a picture. If you rip the cd to one of Xiph.org's free formats, <br />
it's lost because nothing supports this. <br />
Mayby oga could support this with some extra metadata and pictures in jpeg: <br />
a picture for the .oga and a picture for each number via metadata-system or something like that. <br />
This way someone can easily rip cd's and <br />
keep them in a consistent way on his or her computer. <br />
(One oga per cd, with the same picture as one the cd box, with all the numbers of one cd in oga file that can be played separatelly)<br />
<br />
:Yes, Ogg can carry multiple streams of audio, so you could backup an entire album in Ogg as FLAC or Vorbis and use the .oga extension. In this case alone, it is recommended to use .oga instead of .ogg because .ogg is for a single Vorbis stream file, while .oga requires a Skeleton stream which helps players recognize all the different songs in the file. Confused? One song, .ogg. Multiple songs in one file, .oga. Just make sure that the .oga file has a Skeleton stream. You can verify that with the ogginfo command line tool. And yes, you can also add a JPEG or PNG inside Ogg. I just don't know of any program that supports it, but theoretically it is possible. Just a heads up again, a song and an image are two streams of data, not just one, so again it would use .oga instead of .ogg. This also prevents breaking existing players that don't support embeded images.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:48, 25 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
foobar2000's plugin OggPreview can create as many chained Vorbis streams inside a single Ogg file as you want, and each of them can keep its own metadata.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: This sounds great and about streams of audio: <br />
Can I think of those streams also as separate audio files inside a multistream file? <br />
Because flac for example can also do up to eight streams.<br />
<br />
:::Yes.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
Have also a few other questions:<br />
- Is it possible to have an oga with an album in with a mix of songs in flac, vorbis and speexs?<br />
- Is it possible in oga to have a different picture for each song, stream ?<br />
(For when people make their own albums out of different albums and they want the picture of that album for each song.)<br />
<br />
:Again, yes. Theoretically, there is no limitation in what you can put in Ogg and the order you want it in, but while the format has no such limitations, this is not the case with the software out there. So, the short answer is, for the general public it will look as if Ogg cannot do that which you ask even though it can.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 06:58, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
:: Fantastic, please make sure this is included into the libraries of Xiph.org since applications can easily include them.<br />
<br />
:::To the extent that is possible, the libraries already support embeding of pictures in Ogg. The problem is the programs out there. If you care about this issue and you are either a developer or have money to hire one, you should patch free software programs like VLC to support it. Then hopefully the non-free programs like foobar2000 will follow the lead.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:48, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
::::When is there going to be support for lyrics for audiofiles and in what form (what file extensions will be able to have it and what metadata standards will be able to do it) ?<br />
::::It is currently no way to save those.<br />
<br />
:::::Support in third party player software ? Lyrics for audio files are a lot like movie subtitles - text mapped to a time interval (unless you mean lyrics without the timing, in which case you could store them in Vorbis comments).<br />
:::::For timed lyrics, CMML and Kate can store this in a muxed stream, with the caveat that many Vorbis-only players will choke on a muxed stream.<br />
:::::You still need a way to display those in a player, however, but this is a question for the programmers for whatever player you're using<br />
::::::Hoped for player (or specification) that is able to show text mapped to a time interval without the timing. <br />
::::::Or else the text have to stand in the file two times. One time for mapping and another time for serving as meta data.<br />
:::::::If you want it without the timing, you have to store it in headers, as streaming it will get you the text only as its presentation<br />
:::::::time is reached. You could do that if you were loading from a file, but that's only a special case, so it's best to leave that text<br />
:::::::interleaved with other streams. A player wanting to display the entirety of the lyrics at once would have to, if possible (eg, if not<br />
:::::::streaming), scan the entire file to recover the text. Parsing Ogg packets is relatively fast, so a threaded player could do this while<br />
:::::::starting streaming a file and have the text ready in under a second for a typical song I suppose. Still, this is player specific code<br />
:::::::using whatever codec's library. For instance, if the lyrics are stored as a Kate stream, you could do something like:<br />
::::::: char lyrics[4096]; /* you'll want to dynamically allocate this as you read text */<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_init(&k);<br />
::::::: while (1) {<br />
::::::: if (get_packet(&oy,&os,&init,&op)) break;<br />
::::::: kate_packet_wrap(&kp,op.bytes,op.packet);<br />
::::::: if (kate_high_decode_packetin(&k,&kp,&ev)>0) break;<br />
::::::: if (ev) { strcat(lyrics, ev->text); strcat(lyrics, "\n"); }<br />
::::::: }<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_clear(&k);<br />
:::::::As you see, it's very little code once you have the Ogg stream ready for sync, but this has to be done by each player<br />
:::::::as the get_packet thing will be piggybacking on that player's Ogg read routines.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Timed text (and images) not in other profiles than .ogx/.anx ==<br />
(Important Note: This is not the same as the topic above this one!)<br />
<br />
The topic above this one asks if Ogg is capable of having such streams. <br />
<br />
This topic is about allowing those streams in certain profiles. <br />
<br />
<br />
(This topic is a bunch of ideas that is meant to help the people at Xiph, <br />
constructive criticism. <br />
I don't say everybody has to do everything I tell here! <br />
I'm not saying it's bad and shouldn't be done either. )<br />
<br />
<br />
The profile list looks very good but raises a few questions about audio and video profiles in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
<br />
audio:<br />
In the oga and axa profile, it looks like timed images and/or text aren't allowed. <br />
In axa there is a CMML for timed text. <br />
But in oga there isn't CMML allowed. <br />
In axa and oga there seems no timed images with OggSpots allowed, even if it's possible because of the skeleton structure in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
There isn't timed text allowed in oga and axa, CMML is a special case. There are not Kate streams possible in both. <br />
The mentioned timed image(s)/text streams would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people would want to have album art and lyrics in their audio files. <br />
This is reasonably basic for audio files and shouldn't be restricted to the application (and other) profiles. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a timed images stream (OggSpots) and a timed text stream. Also add the change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
(Wiki/format documentation/...) <br />
<br />
video:<br />
There doesn't seem to be a timed text stream allowed for ogv profile. <br />
>Ogg Video Profile (a/v in Ogg container)< <br />
And axv only allows a CMML stream. Which is not the same as allowing a timed text stream. <br />
The mentioned timed text stream would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people would want to have subtitles in their video files. <br />
It's pretty basic for video and shouldn't be restricted to the application profiles. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a text stream. Also add this change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
<br />
Two more special cases of stuff: <br />
Being allowed to use xspf with some kate streams in a file for a timed text stream would be handy in some situations. <br />
Allow/Add embedding/usage of fonts (svgfonts, svg files) in all the profiles that can have text that's being displayed, thus where fonts are used. <br />
This has been brought up on the Kate page. <br />
<br />
Link: [http://wiki.xiph.org/Talk:OggKate]<br />
(scroll to bottom of that page)<br />
<br />
--[[User:Vmol|vmol]] 22 august 2009 17 hours GMT + 1<br />
<br />
== Samples of .oga in the Wild ==<br />
<br />
'''2008-09-04 Update -- another ogg-FLAC ( oga ) file in the wild:''' Brahms' <br />
[http://www.archive.org/details/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16 ''Tragic Overture in D Minor, Op. 81''] to view the item's details page, or you can [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/m3u-Web-streamable.m3u listen losslessly by m3u], orrrr -- Maestro, fanfare please? ... [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/xspf-oga.xspf by first downloading the xspf]. -- [[User:SamN3]] <br />
<br />
Ar Dubya, Reno, NV here -- do we really need the jam-packed (pun) .oga file full of timed lyrics, pix, one-armed jugglers and three-eyed midget strippers (fun as they may be)? Is its capability to carry eight-track FLACs created from DTS-HD Master Audio source material not sufficient? I'm not a developer and don't feel a particularly strong urge to become one to provide non-audio data in the ogg container. As it is, the .oga file can carry my surround sound studio master quality FLACs and render them on-the-fly in my buddy's VLC player on his PC 12,000 miles away. Frankly, I'd like to see more emphasis on perfecting audio technology as opposed to all this other (non-audio) nonsense. By analogy, I'm reminded of the fellow who travels frequently by air, and his pointing out to a companion on a flight, that if you want good food, go to a restaurant. Don't expect a five-course gourmet meal on a plane. That wasn't why it was built.<br />
<br />
For an example of Ogg's doing what she does best, check out my son's Metal band, Blasphemous Creation on the Internet Archive: http://www.archive.org/details/b.c.2008-03-09.flac.studio.demo --[[User:SamN3]]<br />
<br />
:Users do whatever they want with Ogg. We are not going to take that freedom away from them. If you do not see the value of adding a one-armed juggler and three-eyed midget strippers in Ogg someone out there does. You do not have to change your mind about it; just use Ogg in any way you want.<br />
<br />
:And regarding your comment on what emphasis you would prefer seeing, that is an easy thing to do: either volunteer your time to carry on your agenda or pay someone else to do it for you, but do not put your own agenda in front of the other people's. Me, I'd like to see an emphasis on perfecting '''everything''' around here in Xiph. Is that going to happen? Probably not if I and other people don't help, and that's why I'm here, but we are human and can only do as much.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 18:05, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Allow me to put things another way, then: I see the growing emphasis on non-audio material in the ogg container as a disturbing trend.<br />
<br />
::For the record, I have put a *great* deal of time and thought into flac and more recently ogg-FLAC, albeit without the digital equivalent of an employee time card as proof.--[[User:SamN3]]</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:MIME_Types_and_File_Extensions&diff=10504Talk:MIME Types and File Extensions2009-08-22T15:21:10Z<p>Vmol: /* Timed text (and images) not in other profiles than .ogx/.anx */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Ideas==<br />
I came upon this page looking for a speex encoder but, loosely following your arguments, you guys seem to be arguing about how ogg files should be identified. My advice is to copy what they do with XML.<br />
<br />
audio/ogg -should be used for audio ogg files generally.<br />
audio/vorbis+ogg should be used for vorbis files in an ogg container.<br />
audio/speex+ogg should be used for speex files in an ogg container.<br />
<br />
If you put video files in ogg, use:<br />
<br />
video/ogg<br />
<br />
<br />
If you use ogg for non-media files use:<br />
<br />
application/ogg<br />
<br />
And and so on. As for people associating ogg files with vorbis, that is not surprising given that Vorbis was the only show in town for awhile. But because codecs likes speex are not widely supported yet it is important for people to be able to differenciate between different types of ogg files. Therefore I would use a double exension, like "*.spx.ogg" to identify speex files, and "*.vrbs.ogg" to identify vorbis files.<br />
--[[User:Logomachist|Logomachist]] 19:21, 1 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We have studied this issue and our solution is the best one possible given all variables. Just to counter one of your examples, given that an Ogg file with Vorbis audio, lyrics and album art would be audio/ogg+vorbis+kate+png do you still reckon that would be a good idea? XML is self-contained, it's a single instance; Ogg no: it can be anything. The same argument applies for the double extension idea: .theo.vorb.kate.ogg? Nope.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:54, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .flac - application/flac ==<br />
Why not audio/flac?<br />
<br />
Presumedly to distinguish it from "unencapsulated" flac. I'm not sure this makes sense though. Native flac is a fairly light container, and I suspect the current application/x-flac usage is just an analogy with ogg. OTOH, I don't think anyone's done flac over rtp, where this would be needed, but that is something that's interesting.<br />
<br />
:Edit: I have changed my opinion in this subject. Regardless, Josh agrees with audio/flac in case someone is willing to register it. application/flac was never registered.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:57, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::In a way application/flac to describe a stream which uses FLAC encapsulation is the same as using application/ogg to describe a stream using Ogg encapsulation. I don't really know if this is academic thinking and it's more developer-facing than end-user-facing. The question is what is going to be most consistent (and therefore make sense to someone trying to work it out). Since FLAC in Ogg is natively FLAC encapsulated it may make sense to use the same mime-type for native FLAC as the codec mime type to be used for FLAC in Ogg. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 07:26, 28 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .spx - audio/ogg ==<br />
Why not audio/spx?<br />
To distinguish it from ogg vorbis.<br />
<br />
:audio/speex is only used for Speex RTP or in any other case of "Oggless" Speex. Speex in Ogg, which is a common sight, is audio/ogg just like every other audio-only Ogg file, be it Vorbis, FLAC, Ghost/CELT, MIDI, and even OggPCM.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 07:01, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: Then we still need it for RTP and in native container seems to me.<br />
:: Because of the RTP vorbis and speex should have a unique MIME type right?<br />
:: And also for native container for making correct differences.<br />
:: (One of the greatest mistakes of computer programming is identifying two different things as the same.)<br />
:: Because you're goanna have to register it, best use it as well.<br />
<br />
== ".ogg" should be "application/ogg" ==<br />
<br />
I can't accept that ".ogg" becomes Vorbis I only extension.<br />
Ogg is not a codec. It is the container of codecs.<br />
That change will be missleading people.<br />
<br />
".ogg" has been defined as "application/ogg" and already used as Theora+Vorbis.<br />
Redefining ".ogg" as Vorbis I only extension and changing MIME type to "audio/ogg" is not backward-compatible.<br />
Changing spec should be more carefully.<br />
If possible, should not change fixed spec. (I know becoming RFC does not mean fixed spec. But it is treated as fixed spec) --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 07:31, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We understand your concern, but application/ogg isn't about audio, and people out there have wrongly associated .ogg with Vorbis only, making it harder for other codecs like Theora to succeed because of the file extension. They do not understand that Ogg is a container; they think Ogg is Vorbis. Although this proposal is somewhat radical and some people aren't 100% happy with it, it's for the best. video/ogg and audio/ogg will also be much useful now with the <video> and <audio> elements of HTML 5.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:04, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::".ogv" and ".oga" may be useful. I can accept this. But changing the definition of ".ogg" is really needed? I can't find the necessity of this. It breaks backward-compatibility. No one will be happy with this change... --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 13:56, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:::We are not breaking backwards-comaptibility. That's why Vorbis and Speex will be allowed to use .ogg and .spx instead of .oga. The only thing that may break backwards-compatibility is deprecating application/ogg in favor od video/ogg and audio/ogg. That and Theora files, but since there are no Theora hardware players that we know of, existing Theora files may be renamed to .ogv easily, making compatibility with previous files a non-issue. Backwards-compatibility was seriously considered during the creation of this proposal. We are not breaking it.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:53, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::Ummmmm..... I think ".ogg" re-definition is not necessary. My best resolution is simply adding the new ext definitions to RFC:<br />
::::* ".ogg" is application/ogg (as RFC3534)<br />
::::* define new ext and MIME : ".ogx", ".oga", ".ogv", etc...<br />
::::* Use of new extensions is recommended.<br />
::::* Official tools are using new ext (except .ogg for Vorbis I?)<br />
::::Changing of ".ogg"'s MIME type is really necessary? --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 16:35, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::: Want also to see more consistent behaviour like changing name of vorbis into something like n/m/l/w-orbis.<br />
::::: And mime type is then audio/ n/m/l/w-orbis <br />
::::: ogx is a very good way to overcome problems but be sure to let it have an internal version number for making changes later<br />
::::: Because of RTP and native containers codecs better have unique MIME-types, always:<br />
::::: Changes: vorbis: still .vorbis would be better(change name to something that doesn't starts with a v, nor, xor or g)<br />
::::: This solves the problem with backwards compatability because .ogg isn't used. <br />
::::: <br />
::::: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/vorbis, speex: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/speex<br />
::::: (audio/ogg with everything on it is being used for .oga and that <br />
::::: stands for ogg audio is very consistent and easy to see)<br />
::::: It has to be registered anyway for RTP !!!! <br />
::::: (It wouldn't be such a big assigment now to do that, but over a year or two, <br />
::::: you can't go back anymore because of compatability!!!)<br />
:::::<br />
::::: And people think that vorbis is a video format because it starts with a v.<br />
::::: So they look around if their player supports vorbis video but they find out only audio is supported.<br />
::::: Mad about getting wrong information and quit ogg for an alternative mostly.<br />
::::: Please change the name or create a new format that is essentially vorbis with another name. <br />
::::: (And also add new metadata formats in to have a reason for people to update.)<br />
<br />
==text/cmml==<br />
text/cmml for CMML without container: the Codec mime types are to be used in Skeleton, can this mime type be applied to the CMML Ogg mapping? (It's not plain text in the way that Vorbis mapped into Ogg is exactly audio/vorbis.)<br />
<br />
== .oga - able to rip cd's with all of it's contents also metadata like picture of the album (also separate pictures for each song)? Yes. This is fantastic==<br />
<br />
Can multiple audio streams/files be packed to one oga? <br />
(I mean that there are seperatable flac/speex/vorbis files that can be played separately). <br />
If this is the case then oga is a very good candidate for <br />
ripping a cd with all of it's contents and metadata without loss.<br />
<br />
On a cd there is usually a picture. If you rip the cd to one of Xiph.org's free formats, <br />
it's lost because nothing supports this. <br />
Mayby oga could support this with some extra metadata and pictures in jpeg: <br />
a picture for the .oga and a picture for each number via metadata-system or something like that. <br />
This way someone can easily rip cd's and <br />
keep them in a consistent way on his or her computer. <br />
(One oga per cd, with the same picture as one the cd box, with all the numbers of one cd in oga file that can be played separatelly)<br />
<br />
:Yes, Ogg can carry multiple streams of audio, so you could backup an entire album in Ogg as FLAC or Vorbis and use the .oga extension. In this case alone, it is recommended to use .oga instead of .ogg because .ogg is for a single Vorbis stream file, while .oga requires a Skeleton stream which helps players recognize all the different songs in the file. Confused? One song, .ogg. Multiple songs in one file, .oga. Just make sure that the .oga file has a Skeleton stream. You can verify that with the ogginfo command line tool. And yes, you can also add a JPEG or PNG inside Ogg. I just don't know of any program that supports it, but theoretically it is possible. Just a heads up again, a song and an image are two streams of data, not just one, so again it would use .oga instead of .ogg. This also prevents breaking existing players that don't support embeded images.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:48, 25 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
foobar2000's plugin OggPreview can create as many chained Vorbis streams inside a single Ogg file as you want, and each of them can keep its own metadata.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: This sounds great and about streams of audio: <br />
Can I think of those streams also as separate audio files inside a multistream file? <br />
Because flac for example can also do up to eight streams.<br />
<br />
:::Yes.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
Have also a few other questions:<br />
- Is it possible to have an oga with an album in with a mix of songs in flac, vorbis and speexs?<br />
- Is it possible in oga to have a different picture for each song, stream ?<br />
(For when people make their own albums out of different albums and they want the picture of that album for each song.)<br />
<br />
:Again, yes. Theoretically, there is no limitation in what you can put in Ogg and the order you want it in, but while the format has no such limitations, this is not the case with the software out there. So, the short answer is, for the general public it will look as if Ogg cannot do that which you ask even though it can.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 06:58, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
:: Fantastic, please make sure this is included into the libraries of Xiph.org since applications can easily include them.<br />
<br />
:::To the extent that is possible, the libraries already support embeding of pictures in Ogg. The problem is the programs out there. If you care about this issue and you are either a developer or have money to hire one, you should patch free software programs like VLC to support it. Then hopefully the non-free programs like foobar2000 will follow the lead.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:48, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
::::When is there going to be support for lyrics for audiofiles and in what form (what file extensions will be able to have it and what metadata standards will be able to do it) ?<br />
::::It is currently no way to save those.<br />
<br />
:::::Support in third party player software ? Lyrics for audio files are a lot like movie subtitles - text mapped to a time interval (unless you mean lyrics without the timing, in which case you could store them in Vorbis comments).<br />
:::::For timed lyrics, CMML and Kate can store this in a muxed stream, with the caveat that many Vorbis-only players will choke on a muxed stream.<br />
:::::You still need a way to display those in a player, however, but this is a question for the programmers for whatever player you're using<br />
::::::Hoped for player (or specification) that is able to show text mapped to a time interval without the timing. <br />
::::::Or else the text have to stand in the file two times. One time for mapping and another time for serving as meta data.<br />
:::::::If you want it without the timing, you have to store it in headers, as streaming it will get you the text only as its presentation<br />
:::::::time is reached. You could do that if you were loading from a file, but that's only a special case, so it's best to leave that text<br />
:::::::interleaved with other streams. A player wanting to display the entirety of the lyrics at once would have to, if possible (eg, if not<br />
:::::::streaming), scan the entire file to recover the text. Parsing Ogg packets is relatively fast, so a threaded player could do this while<br />
:::::::starting streaming a file and have the text ready in under a second for a typical song I suppose. Still, this is player specific code<br />
:::::::using whatever codec's library. For instance, if the lyrics are stored as a Kate stream, you could do something like:<br />
::::::: char lyrics[4096]; /* you'll want to dynamically allocate this as you read text */<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_init(&k);<br />
::::::: while (1) {<br />
::::::: if (get_packet(&oy,&os,&init,&op)) break;<br />
::::::: kate_packet_wrap(&kp,op.bytes,op.packet);<br />
::::::: if (kate_high_decode_packetin(&k,&kp,&ev)>0) break;<br />
::::::: if (ev) { strcat(lyrics, ev->text); strcat(lyrics, "\n"); }<br />
::::::: }<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_clear(&k);<br />
:::::::As you see, it's very little code once you have the Ogg stream ready for sync, but this has to be done by each player<br />
:::::::as the get_packet thing will be piggybacking on that player's Ogg read routines.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Timed text (and images) not in other profiles than .ogx/.anx ==<br />
(Important Note: This is not the same as the topic above this one!)<br />
The topic above this one asks if Ogg is capable of having such streams. <br />
This topic is about allowing those streams in certain profiles. <br />
<br />
<br />
(This topic is a bunch of ideas that is meant to help the people at Xiph, <br />
constructive criticism. <br />
I don't say everybody has to do everything I tell here! <br />
I'm not saying it's bad and shouldn't be done either. )<br />
<br />
<br />
The profile list looks very good but raises a few questions about audio and video profiles in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
<br />
audio:<br />
In the oga and axa profile, it looks like timed images and/or text aren't allowed. <br />
In axa there is a CMML for timed text. <br />
But in oga there isn't CMML allowed. <br />
In axa and oga there seems no timed images with OggSpots allowed, even if it's possible because of the skeleton structure in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
There isn't timed text allowed in oga and axa, CMML is a special case. There are not Kate streams possible in both. <br />
The mentioned timed image(s)/text streams would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people would want to have album art and lyrics in their audio files. <br />
This is reasonably basic for audio files and shouldn't be restricted to the application (and other) profiles. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a timed images stream (OggSpots) and a timed text stream. Also add the change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
(Wiki/format documentation/...) <br />
<br />
video:<br />
There doesn't seem to be a timed text stream allowed for ogv profile. <br />
>Ogg Video Profile (a/v in Ogg container)< <br />
And axv only allows a CMML stream. Which is not the same as allowing a timed text stream. <br />
The mentioned timed text stream would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people would want to have subtitles in their video files. <br />
It's pretty basic for video and shouldn't be restricted to the application profiles. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a text stream. Also add this change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
<br />
Two more special cases of stuff: <br />
Being allowed to use xspf with some kate streams in a file for a timed text stream would be handy in some situations. <br />
Allow/Add embedding/usage of fonts (svgfonts, svg files) in all the profiles that can have text that's being displayed, thus where fonts are used. <br />
This has been brought up on the Kate page. <br />
<br />
Link: [http://wiki.xiph.org/Talk:OggKate]<br />
(scroll to bottom of that page)<br />
<br />
--[[User:Vmol|vmol]] 22 august 2009 17 hours GMT + 1<br />
<br />
== Samples of .oga in the Wild ==<br />
<br />
'''2008-09-04 Update -- another ogg-FLAC ( oga ) file in the wild:''' Brahms' <br />
[http://www.archive.org/details/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16 ''Tragic Overture in D Minor, Op. 81''] to view the item's details page, or you can [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/m3u-Web-streamable.m3u listen losslessly by m3u], orrrr -- Maestro, fanfare please? ... [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/xspf-oga.xspf by first downloading the xspf]. -- [[User:SamN3]] <br />
<br />
Ar Dubya, Reno, NV here -- do we really need the jam-packed (pun) .oga file full of timed lyrics, pix, one-armed jugglers and three-eyed midget strippers (fun as they may be)? Is its capability to carry eight-track FLACs created from DTS-HD Master Audio source material not sufficient? I'm not a developer and don't feel a particularly strong urge to become one to provide non-audio data in the ogg container. As it is, the .oga file can carry my surround sound studio master quality FLACs and render them on-the-fly in my buddy's VLC player on his PC 12,000 miles away. Frankly, I'd like to see more emphasis on perfecting audio technology as opposed to all this other (non-audio) nonsense. By analogy, I'm reminded of the fellow who travels frequently by air, and his pointing out to a companion on a flight, that if you want good food, go to a restaurant. Don't expect a five-course gourmet meal on a plane. That wasn't why it was built.<br />
<br />
For an example of Ogg's doing what she does best, check out my son's Metal band, Blasphemous Creation on the Internet Archive: http://www.archive.org/details/b.c.2008-03-09.flac.studio.demo --[[User:SamN3]]<br />
<br />
:Users do whatever they want with Ogg. We are not going to take that freedom away from them. If you do not see the value of adding a one-armed juggler and three-eyed midget strippers in Ogg someone out there does. You do not have to change your mind about it; just use Ogg in any way you want.<br />
<br />
:And regarding your comment on what emphasis you would prefer seeing, that is an easy thing to do: either volunteer your time to carry on your agenda or pay someone else to do it for you, but do not put your own agenda in front of the other people's. Me, I'd like to see an emphasis on perfecting '''everything''' around here in Xiph. Is that going to happen? Probably not if I and other people don't help, and that's why I'm here, but we are human and can only do as much.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 18:05, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Allow me to put things another way, then: I see the growing emphasis on non-audio material in the ogg container as a disturbing trend.<br />
<br />
::For the record, I have put a *great* deal of time and thought into flac and more recently ogg-FLAC, albeit without the digital equivalent of an employee time card as proof.--[[User:SamN3]]</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:MIME_Types_and_File_Extensions&diff=10503Talk:MIME Types and File Extensions2009-08-22T15:16:27Z<p>Vmol: /* Timed text (and images) not in other stuff than .ogx/.anx */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Ideas==<br />
I came upon this page looking for a speex encoder but, loosely following your arguments, you guys seem to be arguing about how ogg files should be identified. My advice is to copy what they do with XML.<br />
<br />
audio/ogg -should be used for audio ogg files generally.<br />
audio/vorbis+ogg should be used for vorbis files in an ogg container.<br />
audio/speex+ogg should be used for speex files in an ogg container.<br />
<br />
If you put video files in ogg, use:<br />
<br />
video/ogg<br />
<br />
<br />
If you use ogg for non-media files use:<br />
<br />
application/ogg<br />
<br />
And and so on. As for people associating ogg files with vorbis, that is not surprising given that Vorbis was the only show in town for awhile. But because codecs likes speex are not widely supported yet it is important for people to be able to differenciate between different types of ogg files. Therefore I would use a double exension, like "*.spx.ogg" to identify speex files, and "*.vrbs.ogg" to identify vorbis files.<br />
--[[User:Logomachist|Logomachist]] 19:21, 1 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We have studied this issue and our solution is the best one possible given all variables. Just to counter one of your examples, given that an Ogg file with Vorbis audio, lyrics and album art would be audio/ogg+vorbis+kate+png do you still reckon that would be a good idea? XML is self-contained, it's a single instance; Ogg no: it can be anything. The same argument applies for the double extension idea: .theo.vorb.kate.ogg? Nope.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:54, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .flac - application/flac ==<br />
Why not audio/flac?<br />
<br />
Presumedly to distinguish it from "unencapsulated" flac. I'm not sure this makes sense though. Native flac is a fairly light container, and I suspect the current application/x-flac usage is just an analogy with ogg. OTOH, I don't think anyone's done flac over rtp, where this would be needed, but that is something that's interesting.<br />
<br />
:Edit: I have changed my opinion in this subject. Regardless, Josh agrees with audio/flac in case someone is willing to register it. application/flac was never registered.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:57, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::In a way application/flac to describe a stream which uses FLAC encapsulation is the same as using application/ogg to describe a stream using Ogg encapsulation. I don't really know if this is academic thinking and it's more developer-facing than end-user-facing. The question is what is going to be most consistent (and therefore make sense to someone trying to work it out). Since FLAC in Ogg is natively FLAC encapsulated it may make sense to use the same mime-type for native FLAC as the codec mime type to be used for FLAC in Ogg. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 07:26, 28 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .spx - audio/ogg ==<br />
Why not audio/spx?<br />
To distinguish it from ogg vorbis.<br />
<br />
:audio/speex is only used for Speex RTP or in any other case of "Oggless" Speex. Speex in Ogg, which is a common sight, is audio/ogg just like every other audio-only Ogg file, be it Vorbis, FLAC, Ghost/CELT, MIDI, and even OggPCM.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 07:01, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: Then we still need it for RTP and in native container seems to me.<br />
:: Because of the RTP vorbis and speex should have a unique MIME type right?<br />
:: And also for native container for making correct differences.<br />
:: (One of the greatest mistakes of computer programming is identifying two different things as the same.)<br />
:: Because you're goanna have to register it, best use it as well.<br />
<br />
== ".ogg" should be "application/ogg" ==<br />
<br />
I can't accept that ".ogg" becomes Vorbis I only extension.<br />
Ogg is not a codec. It is the container of codecs.<br />
That change will be missleading people.<br />
<br />
".ogg" has been defined as "application/ogg" and already used as Theora+Vorbis.<br />
Redefining ".ogg" as Vorbis I only extension and changing MIME type to "audio/ogg" is not backward-compatible.<br />
Changing spec should be more carefully.<br />
If possible, should not change fixed spec. (I know becoming RFC does not mean fixed spec. But it is treated as fixed spec) --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 07:31, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We understand your concern, but application/ogg isn't about audio, and people out there have wrongly associated .ogg with Vorbis only, making it harder for other codecs like Theora to succeed because of the file extension. They do not understand that Ogg is a container; they think Ogg is Vorbis. Although this proposal is somewhat radical and some people aren't 100% happy with it, it's for the best. video/ogg and audio/ogg will also be much useful now with the <video> and <audio> elements of HTML 5.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:04, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::".ogv" and ".oga" may be useful. I can accept this. But changing the definition of ".ogg" is really needed? I can't find the necessity of this. It breaks backward-compatibility. No one will be happy with this change... --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 13:56, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:::We are not breaking backwards-comaptibility. That's why Vorbis and Speex will be allowed to use .ogg and .spx instead of .oga. The only thing that may break backwards-compatibility is deprecating application/ogg in favor od video/ogg and audio/ogg. That and Theora files, but since there are no Theora hardware players that we know of, existing Theora files may be renamed to .ogv easily, making compatibility with previous files a non-issue. Backwards-compatibility was seriously considered during the creation of this proposal. We are not breaking it.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:53, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::Ummmmm..... I think ".ogg" re-definition is not necessary. My best resolution is simply adding the new ext definitions to RFC:<br />
::::* ".ogg" is application/ogg (as RFC3534)<br />
::::* define new ext and MIME : ".ogx", ".oga", ".ogv", etc...<br />
::::* Use of new extensions is recommended.<br />
::::* Official tools are using new ext (except .ogg for Vorbis I?)<br />
::::Changing of ".ogg"'s MIME type is really necessary? --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 16:35, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::: Want also to see more consistent behaviour like changing name of vorbis into something like n/m/l/w-orbis.<br />
::::: And mime type is then audio/ n/m/l/w-orbis <br />
::::: ogx is a very good way to overcome problems but be sure to let it have an internal version number for making changes later<br />
::::: Because of RTP and native containers codecs better have unique MIME-types, always:<br />
::::: Changes: vorbis: still .vorbis would be better(change name to something that doesn't starts with a v, nor, xor or g)<br />
::::: This solves the problem with backwards compatability because .ogg isn't used. <br />
::::: <br />
::::: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/vorbis, speex: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/speex<br />
::::: (audio/ogg with everything on it is being used for .oga and that <br />
::::: stands for ogg audio is very consistent and easy to see)<br />
::::: It has to be registered anyway for RTP !!!! <br />
::::: (It wouldn't be such a big assigment now to do that, but over a year or two, <br />
::::: you can't go back anymore because of compatability!!!)<br />
:::::<br />
::::: And people think that vorbis is a video format because it starts with a v.<br />
::::: So they look around if their player supports vorbis video but they find out only audio is supported.<br />
::::: Mad about getting wrong information and quit ogg for an alternative mostly.<br />
::::: Please change the name or create a new format that is essentially vorbis with another name. <br />
::::: (And also add new metadata formats in to have a reason for people to update.)<br />
<br />
==text/cmml==<br />
text/cmml for CMML without container: the Codec mime types are to be used in Skeleton, can this mime type be applied to the CMML Ogg mapping? (It's not plain text in the way that Vorbis mapped into Ogg is exactly audio/vorbis.)<br />
<br />
== .oga - able to rip cd's with all of it's contents also metadata like picture of the album (also separate pictures for each song)? Yes. This is fantastic==<br />
<br />
Can multiple audio streams/files be packed to one oga? <br />
(I mean that there are seperatable flac/speex/vorbis files that can be played separately). <br />
If this is the case then oga is a very good candidate for <br />
ripping a cd with all of it's contents and metadata without loss.<br />
<br />
On a cd there is usually a picture. If you rip the cd to one of Xiph.org's free formats, <br />
it's lost because nothing supports this. <br />
Mayby oga could support this with some extra metadata and pictures in jpeg: <br />
a picture for the .oga and a picture for each number via metadata-system or something like that. <br />
This way someone can easily rip cd's and <br />
keep them in a consistent way on his or her computer. <br />
(One oga per cd, with the same picture as one the cd box, with all the numbers of one cd in oga file that can be played separatelly)<br />
<br />
:Yes, Ogg can carry multiple streams of audio, so you could backup an entire album in Ogg as FLAC or Vorbis and use the .oga extension. In this case alone, it is recommended to use .oga instead of .ogg because .ogg is for a single Vorbis stream file, while .oga requires a Skeleton stream which helps players recognize all the different songs in the file. Confused? One song, .ogg. Multiple songs in one file, .oga. Just make sure that the .oga file has a Skeleton stream. You can verify that with the ogginfo command line tool. And yes, you can also add a JPEG or PNG inside Ogg. I just don't know of any program that supports it, but theoretically it is possible. Just a heads up again, a song and an image are two streams of data, not just one, so again it would use .oga instead of .ogg. This also prevents breaking existing players that don't support embeded images.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:48, 25 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
foobar2000's plugin OggPreview can create as many chained Vorbis streams inside a single Ogg file as you want, and each of them can keep its own metadata.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: This sounds great and about streams of audio: <br />
Can I think of those streams also as separate audio files inside a multistream file? <br />
Because flac for example can also do up to eight streams.<br />
<br />
:::Yes.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
Have also a few other questions:<br />
- Is it possible to have an oga with an album in with a mix of songs in flac, vorbis and speexs?<br />
- Is it possible in oga to have a different picture for each song, stream ?<br />
(For when people make their own albums out of different albums and they want the picture of that album for each song.)<br />
<br />
:Again, yes. Theoretically, there is no limitation in what you can put in Ogg and the order you want it in, but while the format has no such limitations, this is not the case with the software out there. So, the short answer is, for the general public it will look as if Ogg cannot do that which you ask even though it can.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 06:58, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
:: Fantastic, please make sure this is included into the libraries of Xiph.org since applications can easily include them.<br />
<br />
:::To the extent that is possible, the libraries already support embeding of pictures in Ogg. The problem is the programs out there. If you care about this issue and you are either a developer or have money to hire one, you should patch free software programs like VLC to support it. Then hopefully the non-free programs like foobar2000 will follow the lead.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:48, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
::::When is there going to be support for lyrics for audiofiles and in what form (what file extensions will be able to have it and what metadata standards will be able to do it) ?<br />
::::It is currently no way to save those.<br />
<br />
:::::Support in third party player software ? Lyrics for audio files are a lot like movie subtitles - text mapped to a time interval (unless you mean lyrics without the timing, in which case you could store them in Vorbis comments).<br />
:::::For timed lyrics, CMML and Kate can store this in a muxed stream, with the caveat that many Vorbis-only players will choke on a muxed stream.<br />
:::::You still need a way to display those in a player, however, but this is a question for the programmers for whatever player you're using<br />
::::::Hoped for player (or specification) that is able to show text mapped to a time interval without the timing. <br />
::::::Or else the text have to stand in the file two times. One time for mapping and another time for serving as meta data.<br />
:::::::If you want it without the timing, you have to store it in headers, as streaming it will get you the text only as its presentation<br />
:::::::time is reached. You could do that if you were loading from a file, but that's only a special case, so it's best to leave that text<br />
:::::::interleaved with other streams. A player wanting to display the entirety of the lyrics at once would have to, if possible (eg, if not<br />
:::::::streaming), scan the entire file to recover the text. Parsing Ogg packets is relatively fast, so a threaded player could do this while<br />
:::::::starting streaming a file and have the text ready in under a second for a typical song I suppose. Still, this is player specific code<br />
:::::::using whatever codec's library. For instance, if the lyrics are stored as a Kate stream, you could do something like:<br />
::::::: char lyrics[4096]; /* you'll want to dynamically allocate this as you read text */<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_init(&k);<br />
::::::: while (1) {<br />
::::::: if (get_packet(&oy,&os,&init,&op)) break;<br />
::::::: kate_packet_wrap(&kp,op.bytes,op.packet);<br />
::::::: if (kate_high_decode_packetin(&k,&kp,&ev)>0) break;<br />
::::::: if (ev) { strcat(lyrics, ev->text); strcat(lyrics, "\n"); }<br />
::::::: }<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_clear(&k);<br />
:::::::As you see, it's very little code once you have the Ogg stream ready for sync, but this has to be done by each player<br />
:::::::as the get_packet thing will be piggybacking on that player's Ogg read routines.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Timed text (and images) not in other profiles than .ogx/.anx ==<br />
(Important Note: This is not the same as the topic above this one!)<br />
The topic above this one asks if Ogg is capable of having such streams. <br />
This topic is about allowing those streams in certain profiles. <br />
<br />
<br />
(This topic is a bunch of ideas that is meant to help the people at Xiph, <br />
constructive criticism. <br />
I don't say everybody has to do everything I tell here! <br />
I'm not saying it's bad and shouldn't be done either. )<br />
<br />
<br />
The profile list looks very good but raises a few questions about audio and video profiles in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
<br />
audio:<br />
In the oga and axa profile, it looks like timed images and/or text aren't allowed. <br />
In axa there is a CMML for timed text . <br />
But in oga there isn't CMML allowed. <br />
In axa and oga there seems no timed images with OggSpots allowed, even if it's possible because of the skeleton structure in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
The mentioned timed image(s)/text streams would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people would want to have album art and lyrics in their audio files. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a timed images stream (OggSpots) and a timed text stream. Also add the change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
(Wiki/format documentation/...) <br />
<br />
video:<br />
There doesn't seem to be a timed text stream allowed for ogv profile. <br />
>Ogg Video Profile (a/v in Ogg container)< <br />
And axv only allows a CMML stream. Which is not the same as allowing a timed text stream. <br />
The mentioned timed text stream would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people would want to have subtitles in their video files. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a text stream. Also add this change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
<br />
Two more special cases of stuff: <br />
Being allowed to use xspf with some kate streams in a file for a timed text stream would be handy in some situations. <br />
Allow/Add embedding/usage of fonts (svgfonts, svg files) in all the profiles that can have text that's being displayed, thus where fonts are used. <br />
This has been brought up on the Kate page. <br />
<br />
Link: [http://wiki.xiph.org/Talk:OggKate]<br />
(scroll to bottom of that page)<br />
<br />
--[[User:Vmol|vmol]] 22 august 2009 17 hours GMT + 1<br />
<br />
== Samples of .oga in the Wild ==<br />
<br />
'''2008-09-04 Update -- another ogg-FLAC ( oga ) file in the wild:''' Brahms' <br />
[http://www.archive.org/details/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16 ''Tragic Overture in D Minor, Op. 81''] to view the item's details page, or you can [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/m3u-Web-streamable.m3u listen losslessly by m3u], orrrr -- Maestro, fanfare please? ... [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/xspf-oga.xspf by first downloading the xspf]. -- [[User:SamN3]] <br />
<br />
Ar Dubya, Reno, NV here -- do we really need the jam-packed (pun) .oga file full of timed lyrics, pix, one-armed jugglers and three-eyed midget strippers (fun as they may be)? Is its capability to carry eight-track FLACs created from DTS-HD Master Audio source material not sufficient? I'm not a developer and don't feel a particularly strong urge to become one to provide non-audio data in the ogg container. As it is, the .oga file can carry my surround sound studio master quality FLACs and render them on-the-fly in my buddy's VLC player on his PC 12,000 miles away. Frankly, I'd like to see more emphasis on perfecting audio technology as opposed to all this other (non-audio) nonsense. By analogy, I'm reminded of the fellow who travels frequently by air, and his pointing out to a companion on a flight, that if you want good food, go to a restaurant. Don't expect a five-course gourmet meal on a plane. That wasn't why it was built.<br />
<br />
For an example of Ogg's doing what she does best, check out my son's Metal band, Blasphemous Creation on the Internet Archive: http://www.archive.org/details/b.c.2008-03-09.flac.studio.demo --[[User:SamN3]]<br />
<br />
:Users do whatever they want with Ogg. We are not going to take that freedom away from them. If you do not see the value of adding a one-armed juggler and three-eyed midget strippers in Ogg someone out there does. You do not have to change your mind about it; just use Ogg in any way you want.<br />
<br />
:And regarding your comment on what emphasis you would prefer seeing, that is an easy thing to do: either volunteer your time to carry on your agenda or pay someone else to do it for you, but do not put your own agenda in front of the other people's. Me, I'd like to see an emphasis on perfecting '''everything''' around here in Xiph. Is that going to happen? Probably not if I and other people don't help, and that's why I'm here, but we are human and can only do as much.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 18:05, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Allow me to put things another way, then: I see the growing emphasis on non-audio material in the ogg container as a disturbing trend.<br />
<br />
::For the record, I have put a *great* deal of time and thought into flac and more recently ogg-FLAC, albeit without the digital equivalent of an employee time card as proof.--[[User:SamN3]]</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:MIME_Types_and_File_Extensions&diff=10502Talk:MIME Types and File Extensions2009-08-22T15:15:53Z<p>Vmol: Improved sentence, grammar.</p>
<hr />
<div>==Ideas==<br />
I came upon this page looking for a speex encoder but, loosely following your arguments, you guys seem to be arguing about how ogg files should be identified. My advice is to copy what they do with XML.<br />
<br />
audio/ogg -should be used for audio ogg files generally.<br />
audio/vorbis+ogg should be used for vorbis files in an ogg container.<br />
audio/speex+ogg should be used for speex files in an ogg container.<br />
<br />
If you put video files in ogg, use:<br />
<br />
video/ogg<br />
<br />
<br />
If you use ogg for non-media files use:<br />
<br />
application/ogg<br />
<br />
And and so on. As for people associating ogg files with vorbis, that is not surprising given that Vorbis was the only show in town for awhile. But because codecs likes speex are not widely supported yet it is important for people to be able to differenciate between different types of ogg files. Therefore I would use a double exension, like "*.spx.ogg" to identify speex files, and "*.vrbs.ogg" to identify vorbis files.<br />
--[[User:Logomachist|Logomachist]] 19:21, 1 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We have studied this issue and our solution is the best one possible given all variables. Just to counter one of your examples, given that an Ogg file with Vorbis audio, lyrics and album art would be audio/ogg+vorbis+kate+png do you still reckon that would be a good idea? XML is self-contained, it's a single instance; Ogg no: it can be anything. The same argument applies for the double extension idea: .theo.vorb.kate.ogg? Nope.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:54, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .flac - application/flac ==<br />
Why not audio/flac?<br />
<br />
Presumedly to distinguish it from "unencapsulated" flac. I'm not sure this makes sense though. Native flac is a fairly light container, and I suspect the current application/x-flac usage is just an analogy with ogg. OTOH, I don't think anyone's done flac over rtp, where this would be needed, but that is something that's interesting.<br />
<br />
:Edit: I have changed my opinion in this subject. Regardless, Josh agrees with audio/flac in case someone is willing to register it. application/flac was never registered.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:57, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::In a way application/flac to describe a stream which uses FLAC encapsulation is the same as using application/ogg to describe a stream using Ogg encapsulation. I don't really know if this is academic thinking and it's more developer-facing than end-user-facing. The question is what is going to be most consistent (and therefore make sense to someone trying to work it out). Since FLAC in Ogg is natively FLAC encapsulated it may make sense to use the same mime-type for native FLAC as the codec mime type to be used for FLAC in Ogg. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 07:26, 28 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .spx - audio/ogg ==<br />
Why not audio/spx?<br />
To distinguish it from ogg vorbis.<br />
<br />
:audio/speex is only used for Speex RTP or in any other case of "Oggless" Speex. Speex in Ogg, which is a common sight, is audio/ogg just like every other audio-only Ogg file, be it Vorbis, FLAC, Ghost/CELT, MIDI, and even OggPCM.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 07:01, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: Then we still need it for RTP and in native container seems to me.<br />
:: Because of the RTP vorbis and speex should have a unique MIME type right?<br />
:: And also for native container for making correct differences.<br />
:: (One of the greatest mistakes of computer programming is identifying two different things as the same.)<br />
:: Because you're goanna have to register it, best use it as well.<br />
<br />
== ".ogg" should be "application/ogg" ==<br />
<br />
I can't accept that ".ogg" becomes Vorbis I only extension.<br />
Ogg is not a codec. It is the container of codecs.<br />
That change will be missleading people.<br />
<br />
".ogg" has been defined as "application/ogg" and already used as Theora+Vorbis.<br />
Redefining ".ogg" as Vorbis I only extension and changing MIME type to "audio/ogg" is not backward-compatible.<br />
Changing spec should be more carefully.<br />
If possible, should not change fixed spec. (I know becoming RFC does not mean fixed spec. But it is treated as fixed spec) --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 07:31, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We understand your concern, but application/ogg isn't about audio, and people out there have wrongly associated .ogg with Vorbis only, making it harder for other codecs like Theora to succeed because of the file extension. They do not understand that Ogg is a container; they think Ogg is Vorbis. Although this proposal is somewhat radical and some people aren't 100% happy with it, it's for the best. video/ogg and audio/ogg will also be much useful now with the <video> and <audio> elements of HTML 5.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:04, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::".ogv" and ".oga" may be useful. I can accept this. But changing the definition of ".ogg" is really needed? I can't find the necessity of this. It breaks backward-compatibility. No one will be happy with this change... --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 13:56, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:::We are not breaking backwards-comaptibility. That's why Vorbis and Speex will be allowed to use .ogg and .spx instead of .oga. The only thing that may break backwards-compatibility is deprecating application/ogg in favor od video/ogg and audio/ogg. That and Theora files, but since there are no Theora hardware players that we know of, existing Theora files may be renamed to .ogv easily, making compatibility with previous files a non-issue. Backwards-compatibility was seriously considered during the creation of this proposal. We are not breaking it.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:53, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::Ummmmm..... I think ".ogg" re-definition is not necessary. My best resolution is simply adding the new ext definitions to RFC:<br />
::::* ".ogg" is application/ogg (as RFC3534)<br />
::::* define new ext and MIME : ".ogx", ".oga", ".ogv", etc...<br />
::::* Use of new extensions is recommended.<br />
::::* Official tools are using new ext (except .ogg for Vorbis I?)<br />
::::Changing of ".ogg"'s MIME type is really necessary? --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 16:35, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::: Want also to see more consistent behaviour like changing name of vorbis into something like n/m/l/w-orbis.<br />
::::: And mime type is then audio/ n/m/l/w-orbis <br />
::::: ogx is a very good way to overcome problems but be sure to let it have an internal version number for making changes later<br />
::::: Because of RTP and native containers codecs better have unique MIME-types, always:<br />
::::: Changes: vorbis: still .vorbis would be better(change name to something that doesn't starts with a v, nor, xor or g)<br />
::::: This solves the problem with backwards compatability because .ogg isn't used. <br />
::::: <br />
::::: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/vorbis, speex: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/speex<br />
::::: (audio/ogg with everything on it is being used for .oga and that <br />
::::: stands for ogg audio is very consistent and easy to see)<br />
::::: It has to be registered anyway for RTP !!!! <br />
::::: (It wouldn't be such a big assigment now to do that, but over a year or two, <br />
::::: you can't go back anymore because of compatability!!!)<br />
:::::<br />
::::: And people think that vorbis is a video format because it starts with a v.<br />
::::: So they look around if their player supports vorbis video but they find out only audio is supported.<br />
::::: Mad about getting wrong information and quit ogg for an alternative mostly.<br />
::::: Please change the name or create a new format that is essentially vorbis with another name. <br />
::::: (And also add new metadata formats in to have a reason for people to update.)<br />
<br />
==text/cmml==<br />
text/cmml for CMML without container: the Codec mime types are to be used in Skeleton, can this mime type be applied to the CMML Ogg mapping? (It's not plain text in the way that Vorbis mapped into Ogg is exactly audio/vorbis.)<br />
<br />
== .oga - able to rip cd's with all of it's contents also metadata like picture of the album (also separate pictures for each song)? Yes. This is fantastic==<br />
<br />
Can multiple audio streams/files be packed to one oga? <br />
(I mean that there are seperatable flac/speex/vorbis files that can be played separately). <br />
If this is the case then oga is a very good candidate for <br />
ripping a cd with all of it's contents and metadata without loss.<br />
<br />
On a cd there is usually a picture. If you rip the cd to one of Xiph.org's free formats, <br />
it's lost because nothing supports this. <br />
Mayby oga could support this with some extra metadata and pictures in jpeg: <br />
a picture for the .oga and a picture for each number via metadata-system or something like that. <br />
This way someone can easily rip cd's and <br />
keep them in a consistent way on his or her computer. <br />
(One oga per cd, with the same picture as one the cd box, with all the numbers of one cd in oga file that can be played separatelly)<br />
<br />
:Yes, Ogg can carry multiple streams of audio, so you could backup an entire album in Ogg as FLAC or Vorbis and use the .oga extension. In this case alone, it is recommended to use .oga instead of .ogg because .ogg is for a single Vorbis stream file, while .oga requires a Skeleton stream which helps players recognize all the different songs in the file. Confused? One song, .ogg. Multiple songs in one file, .oga. Just make sure that the .oga file has a Skeleton stream. You can verify that with the ogginfo command line tool. And yes, you can also add a JPEG or PNG inside Ogg. I just don't know of any program that supports it, but theoretically it is possible. Just a heads up again, a song and an image are two streams of data, not just one, so again it would use .oga instead of .ogg. This also prevents breaking existing players that don't support embeded images.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:48, 25 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
foobar2000's plugin OggPreview can create as many chained Vorbis streams inside a single Ogg file as you want, and each of them can keep its own metadata.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: This sounds great and about streams of audio: <br />
Can I think of those streams also as separate audio files inside a multistream file? <br />
Because flac for example can also do up to eight streams.<br />
<br />
:::Yes.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
Have also a few other questions:<br />
- Is it possible to have an oga with an album in with a mix of songs in flac, vorbis and speexs?<br />
- Is it possible in oga to have a different picture for each song, stream ?<br />
(For when people make their own albums out of different albums and they want the picture of that album for each song.)<br />
<br />
:Again, yes. Theoretically, there is no limitation in what you can put in Ogg and the order you want it in, but while the format has no such limitations, this is not the case with the software out there. So, the short answer is, for the general public it will look as if Ogg cannot do that which you ask even though it can.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 06:58, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
:: Fantastic, please make sure this is included into the libraries of Xiph.org since applications can easily include them.<br />
<br />
:::To the extent that is possible, the libraries already support embeding of pictures in Ogg. The problem is the programs out there. If you care about this issue and you are either a developer or have money to hire one, you should patch free software programs like VLC to support it. Then hopefully the non-free programs like foobar2000 will follow the lead.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:48, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
::::When is there going to be support for lyrics for audiofiles and in what form (what file extensions will be able to have it and what metadata standards will be able to do it) ?<br />
::::It is currently no way to save those.<br />
<br />
:::::Support in third party player software ? Lyrics for audio files are a lot like movie subtitles - text mapped to a time interval (unless you mean lyrics without the timing, in which case you could store them in Vorbis comments).<br />
:::::For timed lyrics, CMML and Kate can store this in a muxed stream, with the caveat that many Vorbis-only players will choke on a muxed stream.<br />
:::::You still need a way to display those in a player, however, but this is a question for the programmers for whatever player you're using<br />
::::::Hoped for player (or specification) that is able to show text mapped to a time interval without the timing. <br />
::::::Or else the text have to stand in the file two times. One time for mapping and another time for serving as meta data.<br />
:::::::If you want it without the timing, you have to store it in headers, as streaming it will get you the text only as its presentation<br />
:::::::time is reached. You could do that if you were loading from a file, but that's only a special case, so it's best to leave that text<br />
:::::::interleaved with other streams. A player wanting to display the entirety of the lyrics at once would have to, if possible (eg, if not<br />
:::::::streaming), scan the entire file to recover the text. Parsing Ogg packets is relatively fast, so a threaded player could do this while<br />
:::::::starting streaming a file and have the text ready in under a second for a typical song I suppose. Still, this is player specific code<br />
:::::::using whatever codec's library. For instance, if the lyrics are stored as a Kate stream, you could do something like:<br />
::::::: char lyrics[4096]; /* you'll want to dynamically allocate this as you read text */<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_init(&k);<br />
::::::: while (1) {<br />
::::::: if (get_packet(&oy,&os,&init,&op)) break;<br />
::::::: kate_packet_wrap(&kp,op.bytes,op.packet);<br />
::::::: if (kate_high_decode_packetin(&k,&kp,&ev)>0) break;<br />
::::::: if (ev) { strcat(lyrics, ev->text); strcat(lyrics, "\n"); }<br />
::::::: }<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_clear(&k);<br />
:::::::As you see, it's very little code once you have the Ogg stream ready for sync, but this has to be done by each player<br />
:::::::as the get_packet thing will be piggybacking on that player's Ogg read routines.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Timed text (and images) not in other stuff than .ogx/.anx ==<br />
(Important Note: This is not the same as the topic above this one!)<br />
The topic above this one asks if Ogg is capable of having such streams. <br />
This topic is about allowing those streams in certain profiles. <br />
<br />
<br />
(This topic is a bunch of ideas that is meant to help the people at Xiph, <br />
constructive criticism. <br />
I don't say everybody has to do everything I tell here! <br />
I'm not saying it's bad and shouldn't be done either. )<br />
<br />
<br />
The profile list looks very good but raises a few questions about audio and video profiles in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
<br />
audio:<br />
In the oga and axa profile, it looks like timed images and/or text aren't allowed. <br />
In axa there is a CMML for timed text . <br />
But in oga there isn't CMML allowed. <br />
In axa and oga there seems no timed images with OggSpots allowed, even if it's possible because of the skeleton structure in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
The mentioned timed image(s)/text streams would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people would want to have album art and lyrics in their audio files. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a timed images stream (OggSpots) and a timed text stream. Also add the change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
(Wiki/format documentation/...) <br />
<br />
video:<br />
There doesn't seem to be a timed text stream allowed for ogv profile. <br />
>Ogg Video Profile (a/v in Ogg container)< <br />
And axv only allows a CMML stream. Which is not the same as allowing a timed text stream. <br />
The mentioned timed text stream would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people would want to have subtitles in their video files. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a text stream. Also add this change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
<br />
Two more special cases of stuff: <br />
Being allowed to use xspf with some kate streams in a file for a timed text stream would be handy in some situations. <br />
Allow/Add embedding/usage of fonts (svgfonts, svg files) in all the profiles that can have text that's being displayed, thus where fonts are used. <br />
This has been brought up on the Kate page. <br />
<br />
Link: [http://wiki.xiph.org/Talk:OggKate]<br />
(scroll to bottom of that page)<br />
<br />
--[[User:Vmol|vmol]] 22 august 2009 17 hours GMT + 1<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Samples of .oga in the Wild ==<br />
<br />
'''2008-09-04 Update -- another ogg-FLAC ( oga ) file in the wild:''' Brahms' <br />
[http://www.archive.org/details/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16 ''Tragic Overture in D Minor, Op. 81''] to view the item's details page, or you can [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/m3u-Web-streamable.m3u listen losslessly by m3u], orrrr -- Maestro, fanfare please? ... [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/xspf-oga.xspf by first downloading the xspf]. -- [[User:SamN3]] <br />
<br />
Ar Dubya, Reno, NV here -- do we really need the jam-packed (pun) .oga file full of timed lyrics, pix, one-armed jugglers and three-eyed midget strippers (fun as they may be)? Is its capability to carry eight-track FLACs created from DTS-HD Master Audio source material not sufficient? I'm not a developer and don't feel a particularly strong urge to become one to provide non-audio data in the ogg container. As it is, the .oga file can carry my surround sound studio master quality FLACs and render them on-the-fly in my buddy's VLC player on his PC 12,000 miles away. Frankly, I'd like to see more emphasis on perfecting audio technology as opposed to all this other (non-audio) nonsense. By analogy, I'm reminded of the fellow who travels frequently by air, and his pointing out to a companion on a flight, that if you want good food, go to a restaurant. Don't expect a five-course gourmet meal on a plane. That wasn't why it was built.<br />
<br />
For an example of Ogg's doing what she does best, check out my son's Metal band, Blasphemous Creation on the Internet Archive: http://www.archive.org/details/b.c.2008-03-09.flac.studio.demo --[[User:SamN3]]<br />
<br />
:Users do whatever they want with Ogg. We are not going to take that freedom away from them. If you do not see the value of adding a one-armed juggler and three-eyed midget strippers in Ogg someone out there does. You do not have to change your mind about it; just use Ogg in any way you want.<br />
<br />
:And regarding your comment on what emphasis you would prefer seeing, that is an easy thing to do: either volunteer your time to carry on your agenda or pay someone else to do it for you, but do not put your own agenda in front of the other people's. Me, I'd like to see an emphasis on perfecting '''everything''' around here in Xiph. Is that going to happen? Probably not if I and other people don't help, and that's why I'm here, but we are human and can only do as much.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 18:05, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Allow me to put things another way, then: I see the growing emphasis on non-audio material in the ogg container as a disturbing trend.<br />
<br />
::For the record, I have put a *great* deal of time and thought into flac and more recently ogg-FLAC, albeit without the digital equivalent of an employee time card as proof.--[[User:SamN3]]</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:MIME_Types_and_File_Extensions&diff=10501Talk:MIME Types and File Extensions2009-08-22T15:11:01Z<p>Vmol: Enhance audio and video profiles in Ogg and Annodex.</p>
<hr />
<div>==Ideas==<br />
I came upon this page looking for a speex encoder but, loosely following your arguments, you guys seem to be arguing about how ogg files should be identified. My advice is to copy what they do with XML.<br />
<br />
audio/ogg -should be used for audio ogg files generally.<br />
audio/vorbis+ogg should be used for vorbis files in an ogg container.<br />
audio/speex+ogg should be used for speex files in an ogg container.<br />
<br />
If you put video files in ogg, use:<br />
<br />
video/ogg<br />
<br />
<br />
If you use ogg for non-media files use:<br />
<br />
application/ogg<br />
<br />
And and so on. As for people associating ogg files with vorbis, that is not surprising given that Vorbis was the only show in town for awhile. But because codecs likes speex are not widely supported yet it is important for people to be able to differenciate between different types of ogg files. Therefore I would use a double exension, like "*.spx.ogg" to identify speex files, and "*.vrbs.ogg" to identify vorbis files.<br />
--[[User:Logomachist|Logomachist]] 19:21, 1 April 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We have studied this issue and our solution is the best one possible given all variables. Just to counter one of your examples, given that an Ogg file with Vorbis audio, lyrics and album art would be audio/ogg+vorbis+kate+png do you still reckon that would be a good idea? XML is self-contained, it's a single instance; Ogg no: it can be anything. The same argument applies for the double extension idea: .theo.vorb.kate.ogg? Nope.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:54, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .flac - application/flac ==<br />
Why not audio/flac?<br />
<br />
Presumedly to distinguish it from "unencapsulated" flac. I'm not sure this makes sense though. Native flac is a fairly light container, and I suspect the current application/x-flac usage is just an analogy with ogg. OTOH, I don't think anyone's done flac over rtp, where this would be needed, but that is something that's interesting.<br />
<br />
:Edit: I have changed my opinion in this subject. Regardless, Josh agrees with audio/flac in case someone is willing to register it. application/flac was never registered.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:57, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::In a way application/flac to describe a stream which uses FLAC encapsulation is the same as using application/ogg to describe a stream using Ogg encapsulation. I don't really know if this is academic thinking and it's more developer-facing than end-user-facing. The question is what is going to be most consistent (and therefore make sense to someone trying to work it out). Since FLAC in Ogg is natively FLAC encapsulated it may make sense to use the same mime-type for native FLAC as the codec mime type to be used for FLAC in Ogg. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 07:26, 28 June 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .spx - audio/ogg ==<br />
Why not audio/spx?<br />
To distinguish it from ogg vorbis.<br />
<br />
:audio/speex is only used for Speex RTP or in any other case of "Oggless" Speex. Speex in Ogg, which is a common sight, is audio/ogg just like every other audio-only Ogg file, be it Vorbis, FLAC, Ghost/CELT, MIDI, and even OggPCM.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 07:01, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: Then we still need it for RTP and in native container seems to me.<br />
:: Because of the RTP vorbis and speex should have a unique MIME type right?<br />
:: And also for native container for making correct differences.<br />
:: (One of the greatest mistakes of computer programming is identifying two different things as the same.)<br />
:: Because you're goanna have to register it, best use it as well.<br />
<br />
== ".ogg" should be "application/ogg" ==<br />
<br />
I can't accept that ".ogg" becomes Vorbis I only extension.<br />
Ogg is not a codec. It is the container of codecs.<br />
That change will be missleading people.<br />
<br />
".ogg" has been defined as "application/ogg" and already used as Theora+Vorbis.<br />
Redefining ".ogg" as Vorbis I only extension and changing MIME type to "audio/ogg" is not backward-compatible.<br />
Changing spec should be more carefully.<br />
If possible, should not change fixed spec. (I know becoming RFC does not mean fixed spec. But it is treated as fixed spec) --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 07:31, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:We understand your concern, but application/ogg isn't about audio, and people out there have wrongly associated .ogg with Vorbis only, making it harder for other codecs like Theora to succeed because of the file extension. They do not understand that Ogg is a container; they think Ogg is Vorbis. Although this proposal is somewhat radical and some people aren't 100% happy with it, it's for the best. video/ogg and audio/ogg will also be much useful now with the <video> and <audio> elements of HTML 5.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:04, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::".ogv" and ".oga" may be useful. I can accept this. But changing the definition of ".ogg" is really needed? I can't find the necessity of this. It breaks backward-compatibility. No one will be happy with this change... --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 13:56, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:::We are not breaking backwards-comaptibility. That's why Vorbis and Speex will be allowed to use .ogg and .spx instead of .oga. The only thing that may break backwards-compatibility is deprecating application/ogg in favor od video/ogg and audio/ogg. That and Theora files, but since there are no Theora hardware players that we know of, existing Theora files may be renamed to .ogv easily, making compatibility with previous files a non-issue. Backwards-compatibility was seriously considered during the creation of this proposal. We are not breaking it.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 14:53, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::Ummmmm..... I think ".ogg" re-definition is not necessary. My best resolution is simply adding the new ext definitions to RFC:<br />
::::* ".ogg" is application/ogg (as RFC3534)<br />
::::* define new ext and MIME : ".ogx", ".oga", ".ogv", etc...<br />
::::* Use of new extensions is recommended.<br />
::::* Official tools are using new ext (except .ogg for Vorbis I?)<br />
::::Changing of ".ogg"'s MIME type is really necessary? --[[User:話切徒|話切徒]] 16:35, 7 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::::: Want also to see more consistent behaviour like changing name of vorbis into something like n/m/l/w-orbis.<br />
::::: And mime type is then audio/ n/m/l/w-orbis <br />
::::: ogx is a very good way to overcome problems but be sure to let it have an internal version number for making changes later<br />
::::: Because of RTP and native containers codecs better have unique MIME-types, always:<br />
::::: Changes: vorbis: still .vorbis would be better(change name to something that doesn't starts with a v, nor, xor or g)<br />
::::: This solves the problem with backwards compatability because .ogg isn't used. <br />
::::: <br />
::::: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/vorbis, speex: MIME: audio/ogg => audio/speex<br />
::::: (audio/ogg with everything on it is being used for .oga and that <br />
::::: stands for ogg audio is very consistent and easy to see)<br />
::::: It has to be registered anyway for RTP !!!! <br />
::::: (It wouldn't be such a big assigment now to do that, but over a year or two, <br />
::::: you can't go back anymore because of compatability!!!)<br />
:::::<br />
::::: And people think that vorbis is a video format because it starts with a v.<br />
::::: So they look around if their player supports vorbis video but they find out only audio is supported.<br />
::::: Mad about getting wrong information and quit ogg for an alternative mostly.<br />
::::: Please change the name or create a new format that is essentially vorbis with another name. <br />
::::: (And also add new metadata formats in to have a reason for people to update.)<br />
<br />
==text/cmml==<br />
text/cmml for CMML without container: the Codec mime types are to be used in Skeleton, can this mime type be applied to the CMML Ogg mapping? (It's not plain text in the way that Vorbis mapped into Ogg is exactly audio/vorbis.)<br />
<br />
== .oga - able to rip cd's with all of it's contents also metadata like picture of the album (also separate pictures for each song)? Yes. This is fantastic==<br />
<br />
Can multiple audio streams/files be packed to one oga? <br />
(I mean that there are seperatable flac/speex/vorbis files that can be played separately). <br />
If this is the case then oga is a very good candidate for <br />
ripping a cd with all of it's contents and metadata without loss.<br />
<br />
On a cd there is usually a picture. If you rip the cd to one of Xiph.org's free formats, <br />
it's lost because nothing supports this. <br />
Mayby oga could support this with some extra metadata and pictures in jpeg: <br />
a picture for the .oga and a picture for each number via metadata-system or something like that. <br />
This way someone can easily rip cd's and <br />
keep them in a consistent way on his or her computer. <br />
(One oga per cd, with the same picture as one the cd box, with all the numbers of one cd in oga file that can be played separatelly)<br />
<br />
:Yes, Ogg can carry multiple streams of audio, so you could backup an entire album in Ogg as FLAC or Vorbis and use the .oga extension. In this case alone, it is recommended to use .oga instead of .ogg because .ogg is for a single Vorbis stream file, while .oga requires a Skeleton stream which helps players recognize all the different songs in the file. Confused? One song, .ogg. Multiple songs in one file, .oga. Just make sure that the .oga file has a Skeleton stream. You can verify that with the ogginfo command line tool. And yes, you can also add a JPEG or PNG inside Ogg. I just don't know of any program that supports it, but theoretically it is possible. Just a heads up again, a song and an image are two streams of data, not just one, so again it would use .oga instead of .ogg. This also prevents breaking existing players that don't support embeded images.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 08:48, 25 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
foobar2000's plugin OggPreview can create as many chained Vorbis streams inside a single Ogg file as you want, and each of them can keep its own metadata.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: This sounds great and about streams of audio: <br />
Can I think of those streams also as separate audio files inside a multistream file? <br />
Because flac for example can also do up to eight streams.<br />
<br />
:::Yes.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 17:57, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
<br />
Have also a few other questions:<br />
- Is it possible to have an oga with an album in with a mix of songs in flac, vorbis and speexs?<br />
- Is it possible in oga to have a different picture for each song, stream ?<br />
(For when people make their own albums out of different albums and they want the picture of that album for each song.)<br />
<br />
:Again, yes. Theoretically, there is no limitation in what you can put in Ogg and the order you want it in, but while the format has no such limitations, this is not the case with the software out there. So, the short answer is, for the general public it will look as if Ogg cannot do that which you ask even though it can.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 06:58, 26 January 2008 (PST)<br />
:: Fantastic, please make sure this is included into the libraries of Xiph.org since applications can easily include them.<br />
<br />
:::To the extent that is possible, the libraries already support embeding of pictures in Ogg. The problem is the programs out there. If you care about this issue and you are either a developer or have money to hire one, you should patch free software programs like VLC to support it. Then hopefully the non-free programs like foobar2000 will follow the lead.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:48, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
::::When is there going to be support for lyrics for audiofiles and in what form (what file extensions will be able to have it and what metadata standards will be able to do it) ?<br />
::::It is currently no way to save those.<br />
<br />
:::::Support in third party player software ? Lyrics for audio files are a lot like movie subtitles - text mapped to a time interval (unless you mean lyrics without the timing, in which case you could store them in Vorbis comments).<br />
:::::For timed lyrics, CMML and Kate can store this in a muxed stream, with the caveat that many Vorbis-only players will choke on a muxed stream.<br />
:::::You still need a way to display those in a player, however, but this is a question for the programmers for whatever player you're using<br />
::::::Hoped for player (or specification) that is able to show text mapped to a time interval without the timing. <br />
::::::Or else the text have to stand in the file two times. One time for mapping and another time for serving as meta data.<br />
:::::::If you want it without the timing, you have to store it in headers, as streaming it will get you the text only as its presentation<br />
:::::::time is reached. You could do that if you were loading from a file, but that's only a special case, so it's best to leave that text<br />
:::::::interleaved with other streams. A player wanting to display the entirety of the lyrics at once would have to, if possible (eg, if not<br />
:::::::streaming), scan the entire file to recover the text. Parsing Ogg packets is relatively fast, so a threaded player could do this while<br />
:::::::starting streaming a file and have the text ready in under a second for a typical song I suppose. Still, this is player specific code<br />
:::::::using whatever codec's library. For instance, if the lyrics are stored as a Kate stream, you could do something like:<br />
::::::: char lyrics[4096]; /* you'll want to dynamically allocate this as you read text */<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_init(&k);<br />
::::::: while (1) {<br />
::::::: if (get_packet(&oy,&os,&init,&op)) break;<br />
::::::: kate_packet_wrap(&kp,op.bytes,op.packet);<br />
::::::: if (kate_high_decode_packetin(&k,&kp,&ev)>0) break;<br />
::::::: if (ev) { strcat(lyrics, ev->text); strcat(lyrics, "\n"); }<br />
::::::: }<br />
::::::: kate_high_decode_clear(&k);<br />
:::::::As you see, it's very little code once you have the Ogg stream ready for sync, but this has to be done by each player<br />
:::::::as the get_packet thing will be piggybacking on that player's Ogg read routines.<br />
<br />
<br />
== Timed text (and images) not in other stuff than .ogx/.anx ==<br />
(Important Note: This is not the same as the topic above this one!)<br />
The topic above this one asks if Ogg is capable of having such streams. <br />
This topic is about allowing those streams in certain profiles. <br />
<br />
<br />
(This topic is a bunch of ideas that is meant to help the people at Xiph, <br />
constructive criticism. <br />
I don't say everybody has to do everything I tell here! <br />
I'm not saying it's bad and shouldn't be done either. )<br />
<br />
<br />
The profile list looks very good but raises a few questions about audio and video profiles in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
<br />
audio:<br />
In the oga and axa profile, it looks like timed images and/or text aren't allowed. <br />
In axa there is a CMML for timed text . <br />
But in oga there isn't CMML allowed. <br />
In axa and oga there seems no timed images with OggSpots allowed, even if it's possible because of the skeleton structure in Ogg and Annodex. <br />
The mentioned timed image(s)/text streams would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people would want to have album art and lyrics in their audio files. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a timed images stream (OggSpots) and a timed text stream. Also add the change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
(Wiki/format documentation/...) <br />
<br />
video:<br />
There doesn't seem to be a timed text stream allowed for ogv profile. <br />
>Ogg Video Profile (a/v in Ogg container)< <br />
And axv only allows a CMML stream. Which is not the same as allowing a timed text stream. <br />
The mentioned timed text stream would be very welcome in these profiles. <br />
Many people would want to have subtitles in their video files. <br />
Please allow those two profiles to have a text stream. Also add this change to the documentation everywhere. <br />
<br />
Being allowed to use xspf with some kate streams for a timed text stream would be handy and nice too. <br />
And also allow embedding/usage of fonts (svgfonts, svg files) in all the profiles that can have text that's being displayed, thus where font's are used, this has been brought up on the Kate page. <br />
[http://wiki.xiph.org/Talk:OggKate]<br />
(scroll to bottom of that page)<br />
<br />
--[[User:Vmol|vmol]] 22 august 2009 17 hours GMT + 1<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Samples of .oga in the Wild ==<br />
<br />
'''2008-09-04 Update -- another ogg-FLAC ( oga ) file in the wild:''' Brahms' <br />
[http://www.archive.org/details/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16 ''Tragic Overture in D Minor, Op. 81''] to view the item's details page, or you can [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/m3u-Web-streamable.m3u listen losslessly by m3u], orrrr -- Maestro, fanfare please? ... [http://www.archive.org/download/l.f.2006-05-23.flac16/xspf-oga.xspf by first downloading the xspf]. -- [[User:SamN3]] <br />
<br />
Ar Dubya, Reno, NV here -- do we really need the jam-packed (pun) .oga file full of timed lyrics, pix, one-armed jugglers and three-eyed midget strippers (fun as they may be)? Is its capability to carry eight-track FLACs created from DTS-HD Master Audio source material not sufficient? I'm not a developer and don't feel a particularly strong urge to become one to provide non-audio data in the ogg container. As it is, the .oga file can carry my surround sound studio master quality FLACs and render them on-the-fly in my buddy's VLC player on his PC 12,000 miles away. Frankly, I'd like to see more emphasis on perfecting audio technology as opposed to all this other (non-audio) nonsense. By analogy, I'm reminded of the fellow who travels frequently by air, and his pointing out to a companion on a flight, that if you want good food, go to a restaurant. Don't expect a five-course gourmet meal on a plane. That wasn't why it was built.<br />
<br />
For an example of Ogg's doing what she does best, check out my son's Metal band, Blasphemous Creation on the Internet Archive: http://www.archive.org/details/b.c.2008-03-09.flac.studio.demo --[[User:SamN3]]<br />
<br />
:Users do whatever they want with Ogg. We are not going to take that freedom away from them. If you do not see the value of adding a one-armed juggler and three-eyed midget strippers in Ogg someone out there does. You do not have to change your mind about it; just use Ogg in any way you want.<br />
<br />
:And regarding your comment on what emphasis you would prefer seeing, that is an easy thing to do: either volunteer your time to carry on your agenda or pay someone else to do it for you, but do not put your own agenda in front of the other people's. Me, I'd like to see an emphasis on perfecting '''everything''' around here in Xiph. Is that going to happen? Probably not if I and other people don't help, and that's why I'm here, but we are human and can only do as much.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 18:05, 23 August 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Allow me to put things another way, then: I see the growing emphasis on non-audio material in the ogg container as a disturbing trend.<br />
<br />
::For the record, I have put a *great* deal of time and thought into flac and more recently ogg-FLAC, albeit without the digital equivalent of an employee time card as proof.--[[User:SamN3]]</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:Metadata&diff=10500Talk:Metadata2009-08-22T14:25:57Z<p>Vmol: /* Meta data files */</p>
<hr />
<div>== IEEE Learning Object Metadata ==<br />
The proposed solution is RDF + Dublin Core. Has anybody looked into supporting IEEE LOM, the Learning Object Metadata standard that I believe can incorporate Dublin Core? This is being adopted by key players in the e-learning world (IMS Global Learning, and SCORM), and would be valuable for the applications I am interested in.<br />
<br />
:Fred Kintanar<br />
:Cebu City, Philippines<br />
<br />
Having just looked at the [http://ltsc.ieee.org/wg12/ IEEE LOM page], I see they<br />
have XML and RDF bindings defined. The current view seems to be that you package<br />
a RDF or RDF/XML description of the content into the Ogg stream, with Dublin<br />
Core being a minimum feature set (Dublin Core certainly doesn't provide everything<br />
one might want). Handlers would most likely ignore or "dumb-down" relations they<br />
don't understand. In that case this would certainly work, but at the moment there<br />
is no clear plan (details like references between and into logical streams haven't<br />
really been considered as far as I can tell).<br />
<br />
What you want to do may already be possible with [http://ltsc.ieee.org/wg12/ Annodex];<br />
try their [http://lists.annodex.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ mailing lists],<br />
or the [http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/ogg-dev Ogg-dev] mailing list.<br />
<br />
:[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 05:48, 30 January 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== MDMF (now renamed M3F) replacing VorbisComments ==<br />
<br />
The article read: <br />
<blockquote><br />
"The format [MDMF] will possibly replace VorbisComments altogether."<br />
</blockquote><br />
<br />
To which Imalone responded:<br />
:This seems unlikely, not least because VorbisComments are much simpler to implement and interpret. Current consensus is that this will be supplementary or take precedence.--[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 06:21, 17 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::As I understand it, the purpose of MDMF is to replace VorbisComments for the use of ''structured'' metadata, allowing VorbisComments to revert to its orginally intended use of "short, text comments ... much like someone jotting a quick note on the bottom of a CDR." I will modify the article to say this. The Vorbis docs even state "arbitrary metadata belongs in a separate logical bitstream (usually an XML stream type) that provides greater structure and machine parseability". [[User:Martin.leese|Martin Leese]] 12:01, 18 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:::Then Vorbis will have to be replaced by a successor because else you get backwards compatibility issues when players try to read vorbis with the new meta data format and can't!!!!!! 29 January 2008<br />
<br />
::An Ogg container can contain more than one logical stream. [[M3F]] will be a separate logical stream, and will be separate from the [[Vorbis]] stream. As [[M3F]] does not touch [[Vorbis]], backwards compatibility will not be a problem. [[User:Martin.leese|Martin Leese]] 15:59, 29 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Meta data files ==<br />
<br />
Meta data is handy and structured meta data handier. <br />
<br />
However sometimes there is a lot of metadata and it's not handy to use some tagged metadata. <br />
<br />
A general approach would make life very easy for a lot of people. <br />
Allowing Ogg to include files as meta data (and folders). Enabling those files to be added, deleted changed opened as normal files with external programs. Or viewed with file managers. e.g. ad a tab meta data files in the File Properties dialog that displays the meta data files and sub folder(s). <br />
<br />
This way Ogg doesn't have to make or support an complicated and advanced meta data file format for structuring the information itself. Ogg doesn't have to be able to decode them, only contain them which wouldn't be very difficult because it just holds files. <br />
Making Ogg more efficient, streamlined and powerful at the same time. <br />
<br />
<br />
How would this work? <br />
In the files, there would be a folder called meta data files. <br />
This folder would contain every meta data file as files. <br />
<br />
The files could be made visible in the file system by adding a tab called meta data files. <br />
This then could show all the relevant files and folder. <br />
Enabling to browse the folder in the file as a normal folder in the file system would be a very good way of providing access for users and programs.</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:Metadata&diff=10499Talk:Metadata2009-08-22T14:25:25Z<p>Vmol: Added idea</p>
<hr />
<div>== IEEE Learning Object Metadata ==<br />
The proposed solution is RDF + Dublin Core. Has anybody looked into supporting IEEE LOM, the Learning Object Metadata standard that I believe can incorporate Dublin Core? This is being adopted by key players in the e-learning world (IMS Global Learning, and SCORM), and would be valuable for the applications I am interested in.<br />
<br />
:Fred Kintanar<br />
:Cebu City, Philippines<br />
<br />
Having just looked at the [http://ltsc.ieee.org/wg12/ IEEE LOM page], I see they<br />
have XML and RDF bindings defined. The current view seems to be that you package<br />
a RDF or RDF/XML description of the content into the Ogg stream, with Dublin<br />
Core being a minimum feature set (Dublin Core certainly doesn't provide everything<br />
one might want). Handlers would most likely ignore or "dumb-down" relations they<br />
don't understand. In that case this would certainly work, but at the moment there<br />
is no clear plan (details like references between and into logical streams haven't<br />
really been considered as far as I can tell).<br />
<br />
What you want to do may already be possible with [http://ltsc.ieee.org/wg12/ Annodex];<br />
try their [http://lists.annodex.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ mailing lists],<br />
or the [http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/ogg-dev Ogg-dev] mailing list.<br />
<br />
:[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 05:48, 30 January 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== MDMF (now renamed M3F) replacing VorbisComments ==<br />
<br />
The article read: <br />
<blockquote><br />
"The format [MDMF] will possibly replace VorbisComments altogether."<br />
</blockquote><br />
<br />
To which Imalone responded:<br />
:This seems unlikely, not least because VorbisComments are much simpler to implement and interpret. Current consensus is that this will be supplementary or take precedence.--[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 06:21, 17 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::As I understand it, the purpose of MDMF is to replace VorbisComments for the use of ''structured'' metadata, allowing VorbisComments to revert to its orginally intended use of "short, text comments ... much like someone jotting a quick note on the bottom of a CDR." I will modify the article to say this. The Vorbis docs even state "arbitrary metadata belongs in a separate logical bitstream (usually an XML stream type) that provides greater structure and machine parseability". [[User:Martin.leese|Martin Leese]] 12:01, 18 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:::Then Vorbis will have to be replaced by a successor because else you get backwards compatibility issues when players try to read vorbis with the new meta data format and can't!!!!!! 29 January 2008<br />
<br />
::An Ogg container can contain more than one logical stream. [[M3F]] will be a separate logical stream, and will be separate from the [[Vorbis]] stream. As [[M3F]] does not touch [[Vorbis]], backwards compatibility will not be a problem. [[User:Martin.leese|Martin Leese]] 15:59, 29 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Meta data files ==<br />
<br />
Meta data is handy and structured meta data handier. <br />
<br />
However sometimes there is a lot of metadata and it's not handy to use some tagged metadata. <br />
<br />
A general approach would make life very easy for a lot of people. <br />
Allowing Ogg to include files as meta data. Enabling those files to be added, deleted changed opened as normal files with external programs. Or viewed with file managers. e.g. ad a tab meta data files in the File Properties dialog that displays the meta data files and sub folder(s). <br />
<br />
This way Ogg doesn't have to make or support an complicated and advanced meta data file format for structuring the information itself. Ogg doesn't have to be able to decode them, only contain them which wouldn't be very difficult because it just holds files. <br />
Making Ogg more efficient, streamlined and powerful at the same time. <br />
<br />
<br />
How would this work? <br />
In the files, there would be a folder called meta data files. <br />
This folder would contain every meta data file as files. <br />
<br />
The files could be made visible in the file system by adding a tab called meta data files. <br />
This then could show all the relevant files and folder. <br />
Enabling to browse the folder in the file as a normal folder in the file system would be a very good way of providing access for users and programs.</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:OggSpots&diff=10498Talk:OggSpots2009-08-21T20:05:43Z<p>Vmol: some better grammar and clearer vision of ideas+comments</p>
<hr />
<div>This spec seems to supersede [[OggMNG]] (which is good, since this spec seems much more likely to be implemented), but isn't written with one of [[OggMNG]]'s use cases in mind, namely graphical subtitles and other kinds of overlays on another video stream. To support this case, you at least need the ability to specify a transparent background colour, which seems trivial enough. Some means of specifying whether an OggSpots stream is intended to be an overlay or not might also be nice, and this was discussed briefly in the [[OggMNG]] spec, but no decision was reached.<br />
<br />
:Why restricting uses? Don't these codecs stand for freedom? <br />
:Please support all cases. Overlays and not. <br />
: (A person could also state that the timed images are an overlay on the media players default background.) <br />
:OggSpots isn't replacing MNG, it's something else, MNG is a image file format. <br />
:OggSpots is a timed image codec. <br />
<br />
: What also would be nice is having OggSpots the role of ordering images and video and pieces of a video. <br />
: For presentations, timed images are very efficient.<br />
: What if a small movie is a part of the presentation? <br />
: It would be very handy, efficient, convenient to combine it with the pictures and an OggSpot codec in one file. <br />
: Just like images by reference to parts of the video. <br />
: Notice how the OggSpot does NOT actually contain the video. <br />
: A possible application could be OggSpots defining a shorter version of a movie by describing only the parts that will be played by the shorter version. On the same way it describes images. This is very efficient way of storing the two versions. <br />
: <br />
: <br />
: The overlay stuff is taking an awfully lot of time to decide. <br />
: Maybe making a core profile with just timed images(, video) would be a good idea?<br />
: Something like e.g. OggSpots Core<br />
: The overlays can always be refined, decided later in a full version. <br />
: OggSpots Full?<br />
: In the meantime there will be at least a stable solution to do timed images. <br />
: For e.g. Presentations, album art for songs,... <br />
:<br />
: <br />
: Are these things interesting to consider, implement? <br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]]<br />
<br />
Anyhoo, I think that this is an important feature for this kind of codec, so I just wanted to chime in and make sure it wasn't forgotten. Subtitle support in [http://thoggen.net/ Thoggen] for instance, is blocking on this capability.<br />
<br />
[[User:Jdoda|Jdoda]]<br />
<br />
I don't think OggSpots is supposed to replace OggMNG in any way -- [[User:Jmspeex|Jmspeex]] 16:41, 22 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
That's fair, though I don't see any compelling technical reasons for OggMNG if OggSpots gets off the ground. I merely wanted to point out that graphical subtitles and overlays would be a nice use for OggSpots, if the spec took them into acount, which seems like it would take only a minimal effort. -- [[User:Jdoda|Jdoda]] 19:59, 22 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
I came to OggSpots looking for a bitmap overlay format. I would like to raise a few points.<br />
<br />
* What is the format of the BG-color fields? The BG-color field in the header is four bytes; if these are RGBA, there is already a simple way to specify a transparent background color.<br />
<br />
* How to mark the end of an overlay? Stand-alone images stay until the next image starts, but overlays may end earlier. An empty image packet could do the job.<br />
<br />
* Metadata? Would it be useful to add a comment packet, or is metadata provided by OggSkeleton enough? And would it be useful to specify some standard key (maybe lang/language and type=overlay)?<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Cigaes|Cigaes]], 2006-04-15T12:01:00Z<br />
<br />
: It would be good to have full Unicode CLDR support<br />
: CLDR: Common Locale Data Repository. <br />
: localization for everything: region, language, decimal, currency and many more<br />
: <br />
: Metadata is part of the file, therefore managing it is the job of the container. <br />
: Not the job of this or any other codec. -- [[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 2009-08-21</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:OggSpots&diff=10497Talk:OggSpots2009-08-21T19:48:07Z<p>Vmol: Some new idea's and insights about timed images, overlays, handling of stuff</p>
<hr />
<div>This spec seems to supersede [[OggMNG]] (which is good, since this spec seems much more likely to be implemented), but isn't written with one of [[OggMNG]]'s use cases in mind, namely graphical subtitles and other kinds of overlays on another video stream. To support this case, you at least need the ability to specify a transparent background colour, which seems trivial enough. Some means of specifying whether an OggSpots stream is intended to be an overlay or not might also be nice, and this was discussed briefly in the [[OggMNG]] spec, but no decision was reached.<br />
<br />
:Why restricting uses? Don't these codecs stand for freedom? <br />
:Please support all cases. Overlays and not. <br />
: (A person could also state that the timed images are an overlay on the media players default background.) <br />
:OggSpots isn't replacing MNG, it's something else, MNG is a image file format. <br />
:OggSpots is a timed image codec. <br />
<br />
: What also would be nice is having OggSpots the role of ordering images and also be able to use video codec. Or pieces of a video from it. <br />
: Maybe making a core profile with just timed images would be a good idea?<br />
: Something like e.g. OggSpots Core<br />
: The overlays can always be refined, decided later than. <br />
: In the meantime there will be at least a stable solution to do timed images. <br />
: For e.g. Presentations, album art for songs,... <br />
:<br />
: For presentations, timed images are very efficient.<br />
: What if there is a small movie is a part of it? <br />
: It would be very nice to be able to combine it with the pictures. <br />
: How about having OggSpots defining a shorter version of a movie by describing only the parts that will be played by the shorter version. On the same way it describes images. Notice how the OggSpot does NOT actually contain the video. It just references parts of the video. It can work just like images. <br />
:<br />
:<br />
: Wouldn't these things be interesting to consider, implement? <br />
[[User:Vmol|Vmol]]<br />
<br />
Anyhoo, I think that this is an important feature for this kind of codec, so I just wanted to chime in and make sure it wasn't forgotten. Subtitle support in [http://thoggen.net/ Thoggen] for instance, is blocking on this capability.<br />
<br />
[[User:Jdoda|Jdoda]]<br />
<br />
I don't think OggSpots is supposed to replace OggMNG in any way -- [[User:Jmspeex|Jmspeex]] 16:41, 22 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
That's fair, though I don't see any compelling technical reasons for OggMNG if OggSpots gets off the ground. I merely wanted to point out that graphical subtitles and overlays would be a nice use for OggSpots, if the spec took them into acount, which seems like it would take only a minimal effort. -- [[User:Jdoda|Jdoda]] 19:59, 22 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
I came to OggSpots looking for a bitmap overlay format. I would like to raise a few points.<br />
<br />
* What is the format of the BG-color fields? The BG-color field in the header is four bytes; if these are RGBA, there is already a simple way to specify a transparent background color.<br />
<br />
* How to mark the end of an overlay? Stand-alone images stay until the next image starts, but overlays may end earlier. An empty image packet could do the job.<br />
<br />
* Metadata? Would it be useful to add a comment packet, or is metadata provided by OggSkeleton enough? And would it be useful to specify some standard key (maybe lang/language and type=overlay)?<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Cigaes|Cigaes]], 2006-04-15T12:01:00Z</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:TheoraTodo&diff=10495Talk:TheoraTodo2009-08-16T13:07:53Z<p>Vmol: /* Lossless compression for Theora II ? */</p>
<hr />
<div>== FFMPEG2THEORA ==<br />
<br />
"j^" wrote:<br />
<br />
* > is possible: ffmpeg2theora -f image2 frame%06d.ppm -o output.ogg)<br />
* > remove ffmpeg2theora section since the bugs / enhancements listed are in svn<br />
* > FFPMEG2THEORA - bug is fixed in svn, also trac.xiph.org would be a better place for bug reports<br />
<br />
Thanks. Is it supposed to work (undocumented) in 0.19 or will it be in 0.20 ?<br />
<br />
Doesn't work for me with PNG in 0.19 ... "frame%06d.ppm" is one file ? And what the "%" is supposed to mean ? Please release 0.20 soon and document the features and syntax ;-)<br />
<br />
'''ffmpeg2theora -f image2 *.png -o output.ogg''' -> Failure <br />
<br />
Is / will be PNG (and BMP) supported or only PPM ?<br />
<br />
[[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 07:39, 2 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: Bugs not fixed in 0.20, now 0.21 is out, will retest [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:56, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== Lossless compression for Theora II ? ==<br />
<br />
Could theora II also have lossless compression integrated.<br />
<br />
For many people it is important, especially people who take their movies seriously. or when it matters to have no data loss. <br />
<br />
:You had asked this on [[Talk:Main_Page]] already. We now have:<br />
:* HuffYUV (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Lagarith (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Dirac lostless mode (BSD-like free, but not yet ready)<br />
:IMHO no need for Theora lostless. I suggest suspending this issue for a month or 2, then, when Theora 1.0 is out and Dirac is more mature, choose a preferred OGG lostless video codec ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:52, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: Lossless compression would still be a good thing to have for Theora. <br />
:: Even if there are other formats available that can do lossless. <br />
:: Not convinced about using another codec, a lossless mode for Theora is useful. :: --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 25 Jul 2009<br />
<br />
== Are these features okay for theora or not? ==<br />
<br />
Thank you for the open source codex theora with tools. <br />
It looks like there are a lot of features which is very good.<br />
However there is no variable frame rate support. <br />
<br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_codecs#Technical_details]<br />
<br />
Is there double buffering in the theora decoder?<br />
<br />
On blendernation there was an article where there was talked about <br />
double buffering added in a theora decoder, or something like that. <br />
(I'm not sure and haven't found the article on blendernation.)<br />
<br />
This was part of adding a video texture player in Blender: <br />
[http://www.blendernation.com/2008/11/07/bge-video-texture-player-integration/]<br />
<br />
When searching with google, there is no mentioning of double buffering in the theora decoder. <br />
<br />
Wat was interesting to read, <br />
with integrating double buffering in the blender video project. <br />
The cpu consumption was a lot lower.<br />
<br />
Are these things good ideas for the theora project?</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=10494Talk:Main Page2009-08-16T13:07:52Z<p>Vmol: /* For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video */</p>
<hr />
<div>According to [[Special:Popularpages]], the various pages in the Demonstration section are the most visited parts of the wiki, so I moved that section to the top of the main page. --[[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 09:19, 26 April 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Work in Progress ==<br />
<br />
It's not clear on first view (to me at least) that<br />
[[Main Page#Work in Progress]] is a link to<br />
[[Work In Progress]] (as none of the other section headings<br />
are). Possibly it should be a normal heading with the link<br />
in a short text below (à la [[Main Page#Other software]]).<br />
<br />
[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 05:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
You are free to fix that. It's a wiki after all -- [[User:Jmspeex|Jmspeex]] 19:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
Done (just didn't want to trample all over the front page) -- [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 04:33, 2 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Lock This Page ==<br />
<br />
On all/most other wikis the Main Page is locked so only admins can edit it. Due to the amount of vandalism, I think the [[Main Page]] should be locked and all changes discussed here. --[[User:SonicChao|SonicChao]] 05:11, 27 August 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Done !<br />
<br />
== Paranoia / cdparanoia ==<br />
<br />
Why is there no listing under software of paranoia or cdparanoia? Also, there is no listing on the main xiph.org page. Is that software acknowlegded? --[[User:WhiteDragon|WhiteDragon]] 19:52, 9 September 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Suggestion :-O ==<br />
First I want to congratulate you on the wonderful work being done. Thank you very much :-)<br />
Please allow anonymous edits (like wikipedia does) b'caus i'm too lazy to login :-)<br />
<br />
:I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the ton of hidden links I just culled has nothing to do with you... I can't speak for the people running Xiph but requiring a login reduces some of the flood of spam that shows up here, and Wikipedia has many more resources available to deal with it than this wiki does. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 06:06, 24 November 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Proposal for a developer section ==<br />
<br />
As more developers start to "get it" about how ultra cool Ogg / Vorbis / Theora / etc is, wouldn't it be great to have a wiki section devoted to helping these budding programmers along? eg: i've written some nice code i'd be happy to share. Could contain a programming FAQ, how-to's, and real code. Thoughts? [[User:Davec|Davec]] 13:44, 6 December 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Why CamelCase? ==<br />
<br />
MediaWiki supports free links, why are most page titles in the CamelCase format? - [[User:Sikon|Sikon]] 05:34, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:CamelCase? I don't see what you mean. If you think something's wrong, you may go ahead and change it. That's what wikis are for.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 05:37, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:[[WhatHappened|Historical reasons]]. The original wiki used software that only supported [http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CamelCase CamelCase]. For new pages it is fine to use free links. I suggest not renaming pages, as many of them have good search ranking. [[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 07:03, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
I see now. And thanks for the WhatHappened link, Andrel. I managed to recover two pages so far from web archive. I wonder if I'll savage it further.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 08:28, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
== ICECast2 vs vBulletin ==<br />
<br />
Hi there,<br />
Fisrt let me thank you all the great work and the self performance over the ICECast streaming server<br />
<br />
I also Wonder if anyone had included ICECast directly into a vBulletin board having it worked from there on ..meaning enbable to use same username,permission and prefference from the database itself running on MySQL 5 having as if setting permission on for a usergroupe from there to enable them streaming out on your ICECast server and others can apply and yet just participate into the main forum itself<br />
<br />
I do have both running-up over my dedicated server now meanwhile if any would want to help me out creating like this hack or template am willing to give them all access for working over it <br />
can YOU imagine how friendly and powerful that ICECast would mean then<br />
<br />
hey give me a shout if willing to try it<br />
<br />
admin@gysmo.net<br />
<br />
== News ==<br />
<br />
Hi,<br />
<br />
I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items... Someone has made a graphical interface for ffmpeg2theora at http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Other-VIDEO-Tools/GFrontEnd-for-ffmpeg2theora.shtml<br />
<br />
I don't know the technical difficulties of building such a tool, but regardless, the ability for a common Windows user like myself to be able to just easily convert a proprietary file format to Ogg-Theora is really cool... I tested it out on the sample WMV file that came with this laptop, and the converted file worked great in Cortado... Of course, news about programs that allow one to record directly to Ogg-Theora would be even better, but this is still very important, imo... [[User:Brettz9|Brettz9]] 20:56, 4 July 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .NET :-( ==<br />
<br />
> I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items<br />
<br />
Check it out: > Requirements: .NET Framework 2.0<br />
<br />
Also, with 1.5 MiB size it's bigger than FFMPEG2THEORA itself (1.3 MiB after recompressing with UPX 3.0 --ultra-brute) - not that VERY good IMHO.<br />
<br />
: Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes? That's a drop in the bucket of most hard drives nowadays, no? And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too). My interest in seeing it announced is not how well it is implemented--if there are better alternatives let them be known--but that such a tool exists and it works (at least if you get the requirements).<br />
<br />
== MiB ||| .NET ==<br />
<br />
> Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes?<br />
<br />
NO. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix]]<br />
<br />
> And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too)<br />
<br />
I don't have .NET and don't like it :-( Finally, the important thing is the FFMPEG2THEOA core and it works perfectly for me without .NET ;-)<br />
<br />
== Link to Games in Demonstrations Section? ==<br />
<br />
Shouldn't there be a link to [[Games_that_use_Theora]] in the section with other demonstrations? Maybe there's not enough games listed on the page to warrant it?<br />
--[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 11:47, 27 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Yes. There's only two games listed right now. I'm pretty sure there's more out there. Sim9, can you help us listing more games?--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 11:56, 28 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I'm sure you're right, there ''has'' to be more than two. Theora (and Vorbis) is now by default included in the Torque game engine, so there must be a lot of games using it by now. I just polled the Torque community to see if they know of any to help us fill up the list with some successful integrations! --[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 19:02, 29 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Add xvid it's opensource ==<br />
Please add xvid to choosable video format in ogv and others.<br />
It's an open source, mature codec and doesn't have encoder problems theora currently has.<br />
Embedding it makes possible to show off ogv files with a codec that shows the tru power of ogv.<br />
<br />
Please make it possible to put this in, so .ogv can be used immediatelly with xvid and vorbis/speex/flac to create a mature and temporary solution until theora 1.0 hits the digital streets.<br />
Then users can just batch convert it with their applications whenever they feel/want to do it.<br />
(When they think theora is ready.)<br />
Could someone please look into this and tell me if this is possible and/or will be integrated?<br />
--[] 1 February 2008 <br />
<br />
You should read about the issues a bit before filling up the whole wiki with so many questions. Most of your questions, concerns and statements have already been thought about. In this case here, Xvid cannot be considered because it is a patented format. That means it's not a free format like Theora and Xiph cannot use it. Theora is currently now undergoing the last stages of beta to version 1.0 and quality is already at pair with Xvid. Also, users can't simply transcode from one video format to another; you lose quality everytime you do it, because most video formats are lossy.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:37, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Random access Ogg Vorbis decoder written in Java. ==<br />
<br />
And I am very glad that now you have an encoder written in Java. Can vorbis-java-1.0.0 also do the decoding?<br />
Is there an example of how to use vorbis-java decoder?<br />
If yes, can it seek, i.e. decode an Ogg Vorbis bitstream from a random position?<br />
--[[User:Sergey|Sergey]] 12:53, 9 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video ==<br />
Lagarith is a lossless video codec. Please support it, with supporting I mean that it can be used in the ogg and annodex containers as a native video format.<br />
--[] 4 May 2008 <br />
<br />
:There is also HuffYUV besides Lagarith. Also the new Dirac codec supports lostless compression, reportedly better than anything else. Agree, a lostless codec should be added. Just carefully select one of them ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 01:31, 4 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: Lossless compression would still be a good thing to have for Theora. <br />
:: Even if there are other formats available that can do lossless. <br />
:: Not convinced about using another codec, a lossless mode for Theora is useful. :: --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 25 Jul 2009</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:TheoraTodo&diff=10480Talk:TheoraTodo2009-08-07T10:45:41Z<p>Vmol: addition</p>
<hr />
<div>== FFMPEG2THEORA ==<br />
<br />
"j^" wrote:<br />
<br />
* > is possible: ffmpeg2theora -f image2 frame%06d.ppm -o output.ogg)<br />
* > remove ffmpeg2theora section since the bugs / enhancements listed are in svn<br />
* > FFPMEG2THEORA - bug is fixed in svn, also trac.xiph.org would be a better place for bug reports<br />
<br />
Thanks. Is it supposed to work (undocumented) in 0.19 or will it be in 0.20 ?<br />
<br />
Doesn't work for me with PNG in 0.19 ... "frame%06d.ppm" is one file ? And what the "%" is supposed to mean ? Please release 0.20 soon and document the features and syntax ;-)<br />
<br />
'''ffmpeg2theora -f image2 *.png -o output.ogg''' -> Failure <br />
<br />
Is / will be PNG (and BMP) supported or only PPM ?<br />
<br />
[[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 07:39, 2 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: Bugs not fixed in 0.20, now 0.21 is out, will retest [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:56, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== Lossless compression for Theora II ? ==<br />
<br />
Could theora II also have lossless compression integrated.<br />
<br />
For many people it is important, especially people who take their movies seriously. or when it matters to have no data loss. <br />
<br />
:You had asked this on [[Talk:Main_Page]] already. We now have:<br />
:* HuffYUV (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Lagarith (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Dirac lostless mode (BSD-like free, but not yet ready)<br />
:IMHO no need for Theora lostless. I suggest suspending this issue for a month or 2, then, when Theora 1.0 is out and Dirac is more mature, choose a preferred OGG lostless video codec ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:52, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:: Lossless compression would still be a good thing to have for Theora. <br />
:: Even if there are other formats available that can code lossless. <br />
:: Not convinced, lossless mode for Theora is useful. --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 25 Jul 2009<br />
<br />
== Are these features okay for theora or not? ==<br />
<br />
Thank you for the open source codex theora with tools. <br />
It looks like there are a lot of features which is very good.<br />
However there is no variable frame rate support. <br />
<br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_codecs#Technical_details]<br />
<br />
Is there double buffering in the theora decoder?<br />
<br />
On blendernation there was an article where there was talked about <br />
double buffering added in a theora decoder, or something like that. <br />
(I'm not sure and haven't found the article on blendernation.)<br />
<br />
This was part of adding a video texture player in Blender: <br />
[http://www.blendernation.com/2008/11/07/bge-video-texture-player-integration/]<br />
<br />
When searching with google, there is no mentioning of double buffering in the theora decoder. <br />
<br />
Wat was interesting to read, <br />
with integrating double buffering in the blender video project. <br />
The cpu consumption was a lot lower.<br />
<br />
Are these things good ideas for the theora project?</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=10479Talk:Main Page2009-08-07T10:39:41Z<p>Vmol: /* For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video */</p>
<hr />
<div>According to [[Special:Popularpages]], the various pages in the Demonstration section are the most visited parts of the wiki, so I moved that section to the top of the main page. --[[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 09:19, 26 April 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Work in Progress ==<br />
<br />
It's not clear on first view (to me at least) that<br />
[[Main Page#Work in Progress]] is a link to<br />
[[Work In Progress]] (as none of the other section headings<br />
are). Possibly it should be a normal heading with the link<br />
in a short text below (à la [[Main Page#Other software]]).<br />
<br />
[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 05:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
You are free to fix that. It's a wiki after all -- [[User:Jmspeex|Jmspeex]] 19:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
Done (just didn't want to trample all over the front page) -- [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 04:33, 2 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Lock This Page ==<br />
<br />
On all/most other wikis the Main Page is locked so only admins can edit it. Due to the amount of vandalism, I think the [[Main Page]] should be locked and all changes discussed here. --[[User:SonicChao|SonicChao]] 05:11, 27 August 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Done !<br />
<br />
== Paranoia / cdparanoia ==<br />
<br />
Why is there no listing under software of paranoia or cdparanoia? Also, there is no listing on the main xiph.org page. Is that software acknowlegded? --[[User:WhiteDragon|WhiteDragon]] 19:52, 9 September 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Suggestion :-O ==<br />
First I want to congratulate you on the wonderful work being done. Thank you very much :-)<br />
Please allow anonymous edits (like wikipedia does) b'caus i'm too lazy to login :-)<br />
<br />
:I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the ton of hidden links I just culled has nothing to do with you... I can't speak for the people running Xiph but requiring a login reduces some of the flood of spam that shows up here, and Wikipedia has many more resources available to deal with it than this wiki does. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 06:06, 24 November 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Proposal for a developer section ==<br />
<br />
As more developers start to "get it" about how ultra cool Ogg / Vorbis / Theora / etc is, wouldn't it be great to have a wiki section devoted to helping these budding programmers along? eg: i've written some nice code i'd be happy to share. Could contain a programming FAQ, how-to's, and real code. Thoughts? [[User:Davec|Davec]] 13:44, 6 December 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Why CamelCase? ==<br />
<br />
MediaWiki supports free links, why are most page titles in the CamelCase format? - [[User:Sikon|Sikon]] 05:34, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:CamelCase? I don't see what you mean. If you think something's wrong, you may go ahead and change it. That's what wikis are for.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 05:37, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:[[WhatHappened|Historical reasons]]. The original wiki used software that only supported [http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CamelCase CamelCase]. For new pages it is fine to use free links. I suggest not renaming pages, as many of them have good search ranking. [[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 07:03, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
I see now. And thanks for the WhatHappened link, Andrel. I managed to recover two pages so far from web archive. I wonder if I'll savage it further.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 08:28, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
== ICECast2 vs vBulletin ==<br />
<br />
Hi there,<br />
Fisrt let me thank you all the great work and the self performance over the ICECast streaming server<br />
<br />
I also Wonder if anyone had included ICECast directly into a vBulletin board having it worked from there on ..meaning enbable to use same username,permission and prefference from the database itself running on MySQL 5 having as if setting permission on for a usergroupe from there to enable them streaming out on your ICECast server and others can apply and yet just participate into the main forum itself<br />
<br />
I do have both running-up over my dedicated server now meanwhile if any would want to help me out creating like this hack or template am willing to give them all access for working over it <br />
can YOU imagine how friendly and powerful that ICECast would mean then<br />
<br />
hey give me a shout if willing to try it<br />
<br />
admin@gysmo.net<br />
<br />
== News ==<br />
<br />
Hi,<br />
<br />
I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items... Someone has made a graphical interface for ffmpeg2theora at http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Other-VIDEO-Tools/GFrontEnd-for-ffmpeg2theora.shtml<br />
<br />
I don't know the technical difficulties of building such a tool, but regardless, the ability for a common Windows user like myself to be able to just easily convert a proprietary file format to Ogg-Theora is really cool... I tested it out on the sample WMV file that came with this laptop, and the converted file worked great in Cortado... Of course, news about programs that allow one to record directly to Ogg-Theora would be even better, but this is still very important, imo... [[User:Brettz9|Brettz9]] 20:56, 4 July 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .NET :-( ==<br />
<br />
> I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items<br />
<br />
Check it out: > Requirements: .NET Framework 2.0<br />
<br />
Also, with 1.5 MiB size it's bigger than FFMPEG2THEORA itself (1.3 MiB after recompressing with UPX 3.0 --ultra-brute) - not that VERY good IMHO.<br />
<br />
: Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes? That's a drop in the bucket of most hard drives nowadays, no? And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too). My interest in seeing it announced is not how well it is implemented--if there are better alternatives let them be known--but that such a tool exists and it works (at least if you get the requirements).<br />
<br />
== MiB ||| .NET ==<br />
<br />
> Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes?<br />
<br />
NO. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix]]<br />
<br />
> And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too)<br />
<br />
I don't have .NET and don't like it :-( Finally, the important thing is the FFMPEG2THEOA core and it works perfectly for me without .NET ;-)<br />
<br />
== Link to Games in Demonstrations Section? ==<br />
<br />
Shouldn't there be a link to [[Games_that_use_Theora]] in the section with other demonstrations? Maybe there's not enough games listed on the page to warrant it?<br />
--[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 11:47, 27 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Yes. There's only two games listed right now. I'm pretty sure there's more out there. Sim9, can you help us listing more games?--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 11:56, 28 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I'm sure you're right, there ''has'' to be more than two. Theora (and Vorbis) is now by default included in the Torque game engine, so there must be a lot of games using it by now. I just polled the Torque community to see if they know of any to help us fill up the list with some successful integrations! --[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 19:02, 29 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Add xvid it's opensource ==<br />
Please add xvid to choosable video format in ogv and others.<br />
It's an open source, mature codec and doesn't have encoder problems theora currently has.<br />
Embedding it makes possible to show off ogv files with a codec that shows the tru power of ogv.<br />
<br />
Please make it possible to put this in, so .ogv can be used immediatelly with xvid and vorbis/speex/flac to create a mature and temporary solution until theora 1.0 hits the digital streets.<br />
Then users can just batch convert it with their applications whenever they feel/want to do it.<br />
(When they think theora is ready.)<br />
Could someone please look into this and tell me if this is possible and/or will be integrated?<br />
--[] 1 February 2008 <br />
<br />
You should read about the issues a bit before filling up the whole wiki with so many questions. Most of your questions, concerns and statements have already been thought about. In this case here, Xvid cannot be considered because it is a patented format. That means it's not a free format like Theora and Xiph cannot use it. Theora is currently now undergoing the last stages of beta to version 1.0 and quality is already at pair with Xvid. Also, users can't simply transcode from one video format to another; you lose quality everytime you do it, because most video formats are lossy.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:37, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Random access Ogg Vorbis decoder written in Java. ==<br />
<br />
And I am very glad that now you have an encoder written in Java. Can vorbis-java-1.0.0 also do the decoding?<br />
Is there an example of how to use vorbis-java decoder?<br />
If yes, can it seek, i.e. decode an Ogg Vorbis bitstream from a random position?<br />
--[[User:Sergey|Sergey]] 12:53, 9 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video ==<br />
Lagarith is a lossless video codec. Please support it, with supporting I mean that it can be used in the ogg and annodex containers as a native video format.<br />
--[] 4 May 2008 <br />
<br />
:There is also HuffYUV besides Lagarith. Also the new Dirac codec supports lostless compression, reportedly better than anything else. Agree, a lostless codec should be added. Just carefully select one of them ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 01:31, 4 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Theora should also get, have a lossless mode. <br />
::A lossless mode for all video codec please, it's safer. <br />
:: Many people would probably want to use Theora lossless. --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 4 Aug 2009<br />
:: Please add it.</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:MIMETypesCodecs&diff=10478Talk:MIMETypesCodecs2009-08-05T15:37:05Z<p>Vmol: </p>
<hr />
<div>=HEX and Octal ???=<br />
<br />
> char[0,8]: '\211PNG\r\n\032\n'<br />
<br />
> char[0,7]: '\x80theora'<br />
<br />
Why using HEX for some codecs and octal for others ? IMHO all should be hex ...<br />
<br />
<br />
==svg==<br />
<br />
Ogg can use svg in many ways. <br />
(e.g. images, svg animations with svg+SMIL, svgfonts as fonts for subtitles,...) <br />
<br />
Please add it.</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:MIMETypesCodecs&diff=10477Talk:MIMETypesCodecs2009-08-05T15:35:29Z<p>Vmol: svg request</p>
<hr />
<div>=HEX and Octal ???=<br />
<br />
> char[0,8]: '\211PNG\r\n\032\n'<br />
<br />
> char[0,7]: '\x80theora'<br />
<br />
Why using HEX for some codecs and octal for others ? IMHO all should be hex ...<br />
<br />
<br />
==svg==<br />
<br />
Ogg can use svg in many ways. <br />
(e.g. images, animations with SMIL, fonts for subtitles,...) <br />
<br />
Please add it.</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=10476Talk:Main Page2009-08-05T15:31:37Z<p>Vmol: /* For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video */</p>
<hr />
<div>According to [[Special:Popularpages]], the various pages in the Demonstration section are the most visited parts of the wiki, so I moved that section to the top of the main page. --[[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 09:19, 26 April 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Work in Progress ==<br />
<br />
It's not clear on first view (to me at least) that<br />
[[Main Page#Work in Progress]] is a link to<br />
[[Work In Progress]] (as none of the other section headings<br />
are). Possibly it should be a normal heading with the link<br />
in a short text below (à la [[Main Page#Other software]]).<br />
<br />
[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 05:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
You are free to fix that. It's a wiki after all -- [[User:Jmspeex|Jmspeex]] 19:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
Done (just didn't want to trample all over the front page) -- [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 04:33, 2 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Lock This Page ==<br />
<br />
On all/most other wikis the Main Page is locked so only admins can edit it. Due to the amount of vandalism, I think the [[Main Page]] should be locked and all changes discussed here. --[[User:SonicChao|SonicChao]] 05:11, 27 August 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Done !<br />
<br />
== Paranoia / cdparanoia ==<br />
<br />
Why is there no listing under software of paranoia or cdparanoia? Also, there is no listing on the main xiph.org page. Is that software acknowlegded? --[[User:WhiteDragon|WhiteDragon]] 19:52, 9 September 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Suggestion :-O ==<br />
First I want to congratulate you on the wonderful work being done. Thank you very much :-)<br />
Please allow anonymous edits (like wikipedia does) b'caus i'm too lazy to login :-)<br />
<br />
:I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the ton of hidden links I just culled has nothing to do with you... I can't speak for the people running Xiph but requiring a login reduces some of the flood of spam that shows up here, and Wikipedia has many more resources available to deal with it than this wiki does. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 06:06, 24 November 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Proposal for a developer section ==<br />
<br />
As more developers start to "get it" about how ultra cool Ogg / Vorbis / Theora / etc is, wouldn't it be great to have a wiki section devoted to helping these budding programmers along? eg: i've written some nice code i'd be happy to share. Could contain a programming FAQ, how-to's, and real code. Thoughts? [[User:Davec|Davec]] 13:44, 6 December 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Why CamelCase? ==<br />
<br />
MediaWiki supports free links, why are most page titles in the CamelCase format? - [[User:Sikon|Sikon]] 05:34, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:CamelCase? I don't see what you mean. If you think something's wrong, you may go ahead and change it. That's what wikis are for.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 05:37, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:[[WhatHappened|Historical reasons]]. The original wiki used software that only supported [http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CamelCase CamelCase]. For new pages it is fine to use free links. I suggest not renaming pages, as many of them have good search ranking. [[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 07:03, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
I see now. And thanks for the WhatHappened link, Andrel. I managed to recover two pages so far from web archive. I wonder if I'll savage it further.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 08:28, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
== ICECast2 vs vBulletin ==<br />
<br />
Hi there,<br />
Fisrt let me thank you all the great work and the self performance over the ICECast streaming server<br />
<br />
I also Wonder if anyone had included ICECast directly into a vBulletin board having it worked from there on ..meaning enbable to use same username,permission and prefference from the database itself running on MySQL 5 having as if setting permission on for a usergroupe from there to enable them streaming out on your ICECast server and others can apply and yet just participate into the main forum itself<br />
<br />
I do have both running-up over my dedicated server now meanwhile if any would want to help me out creating like this hack or template am willing to give them all access for working over it <br />
can YOU imagine how friendly and powerful that ICECast would mean then<br />
<br />
hey give me a shout if willing to try it<br />
<br />
admin@gysmo.net<br />
<br />
== News ==<br />
<br />
Hi,<br />
<br />
I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items... Someone has made a graphical interface for ffmpeg2theora at http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Other-VIDEO-Tools/GFrontEnd-for-ffmpeg2theora.shtml<br />
<br />
I don't know the technical difficulties of building such a tool, but regardless, the ability for a common Windows user like myself to be able to just easily convert a proprietary file format to Ogg-Theora is really cool... I tested it out on the sample WMV file that came with this laptop, and the converted file worked great in Cortado... Of course, news about programs that allow one to record directly to Ogg-Theora would be even better, but this is still very important, imo... [[User:Brettz9|Brettz9]] 20:56, 4 July 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .NET :-( ==<br />
<br />
> I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items<br />
<br />
Check it out: > Requirements: .NET Framework 2.0<br />
<br />
Also, with 1.5 MiB size it's bigger than FFMPEG2THEORA itself (1.3 MiB after recompressing with UPX 3.0 --ultra-brute) - not that VERY good IMHO.<br />
<br />
: Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes? That's a drop in the bucket of most hard drives nowadays, no? And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too). My interest in seeing it announced is not how well it is implemented--if there are better alternatives let them be known--but that such a tool exists and it works (at least if you get the requirements).<br />
<br />
== MiB ||| .NET ==<br />
<br />
> Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes?<br />
<br />
NO. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix]]<br />
<br />
> And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too)<br />
<br />
I don't have .NET and don't like it :-( Finally, the important thing is the FFMPEG2THEOA core and it works perfectly for me without .NET ;-)<br />
<br />
== Link to Games in Demonstrations Section? ==<br />
<br />
Shouldn't there be a link to [[Games_that_use_Theora]] in the section with other demonstrations? Maybe there's not enough games listed on the page to warrant it?<br />
--[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 11:47, 27 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Yes. There's only two games listed right now. I'm pretty sure there's more out there. Sim9, can you help us listing more games?--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 11:56, 28 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I'm sure you're right, there ''has'' to be more than two. Theora (and Vorbis) is now by default included in the Torque game engine, so there must be a lot of games using it by now. I just polled the Torque community to see if they know of any to help us fill up the list with some successful integrations! --[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 19:02, 29 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Add xvid it's opensource ==<br />
Please add xvid to choosable video format in ogv and others.<br />
It's an open source, mature codec and doesn't have encoder problems theora currently has.<br />
Embedding it makes possible to show off ogv files with a codec that shows the tru power of ogv.<br />
<br />
Please make it possible to put this in, so .ogv can be used immediatelly with xvid and vorbis/speex/flac to create a mature and temporary solution until theora 1.0 hits the digital streets.<br />
Then users can just batch convert it with their applications whenever they feel/want to do it.<br />
(When they think theora is ready.)<br />
Could someone please look into this and tell me if this is possible and/or will be integrated?<br />
--[] 1 February 2008 <br />
<br />
You should read about the issues a bit before filling up the whole wiki with so many questions. Most of your questions, concerns and statements have already been thought about. In this case here, Xvid cannot be considered because it is a patented format. That means it's not a free format like Theora and Xiph cannot use it. Theora is currently now undergoing the last stages of beta to version 1.0 and quality is already at pair with Xvid. Also, users can't simply transcode from one video format to another; you lose quality everytime you do it, because most video formats are lossy.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:37, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Random access Ogg Vorbis decoder written in Java. ==<br />
<br />
And I am very glad that now you have an encoder written in Java. Can vorbis-java-1.0.0 also do the decoding?<br />
Is there an example of how to use vorbis-java decoder?<br />
If yes, can it seek, i.e. decode an Ogg Vorbis bitstream from a random position?<br />
--[[User:Sergey|Sergey]] 12:53, 9 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video ==<br />
Lagarith is a lossless video codec. Please support it, with supporting I mean that it can be used in the ogg and annodex containers as a native video format.<br />
--[] 4 May 2008 <br />
<br />
:There is also HuffYUV besides Lagarith. Also the new Dirac codec supports lostless compression, reportedly better than anything else. Agree, a lostless codec should be added. Just carefully select one of them ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 01:31, 4 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Theora should also get, have a lossless mode. <br />
::No need for a new codec, just a lossless mode for all video codec please. --[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 4 Aug 2009</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=10475Talk:Main Page2009-08-05T15:31:19Z<p>Vmol: /* For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video */</p>
<hr />
<div>According to [[Special:Popularpages]], the various pages in the Demonstration section are the most visited parts of the wiki, so I moved that section to the top of the main page. --[[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 09:19, 26 April 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Work in Progress ==<br />
<br />
It's not clear on first view (to me at least) that<br />
[[Main Page#Work in Progress]] is a link to<br />
[[Work In Progress]] (as none of the other section headings<br />
are). Possibly it should be a normal heading with the link<br />
in a short text below (à la [[Main Page#Other software]]).<br />
<br />
[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 05:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
You are free to fix that. It's a wiki after all -- [[User:Jmspeex|Jmspeex]] 19:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
Done (just didn't want to trample all over the front page) -- [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 04:33, 2 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Lock This Page ==<br />
<br />
On all/most other wikis the Main Page is locked so only admins can edit it. Due to the amount of vandalism, I think the [[Main Page]] should be locked and all changes discussed here. --[[User:SonicChao|SonicChao]] 05:11, 27 August 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Done !<br />
<br />
== Paranoia / cdparanoia ==<br />
<br />
Why is there no listing under software of paranoia or cdparanoia? Also, there is no listing on the main xiph.org page. Is that software acknowlegded? --[[User:WhiteDragon|WhiteDragon]] 19:52, 9 September 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Suggestion :-O ==<br />
First I want to congratulate you on the wonderful work being done. Thank you very much :-)<br />
Please allow anonymous edits (like wikipedia does) b'caus i'm too lazy to login :-)<br />
<br />
:I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the ton of hidden links I just culled has nothing to do with you... I can't speak for the people running Xiph but requiring a login reduces some of the flood of spam that shows up here, and Wikipedia has many more resources available to deal with it than this wiki does. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 06:06, 24 November 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Proposal for a developer section ==<br />
<br />
As more developers start to "get it" about how ultra cool Ogg / Vorbis / Theora / etc is, wouldn't it be great to have a wiki section devoted to helping these budding programmers along? eg: i've written some nice code i'd be happy to share. Could contain a programming FAQ, how-to's, and real code. Thoughts? [[User:Davec|Davec]] 13:44, 6 December 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Why CamelCase? ==<br />
<br />
MediaWiki supports free links, why are most page titles in the CamelCase format? - [[User:Sikon|Sikon]] 05:34, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:CamelCase? I don't see what you mean. If you think something's wrong, you may go ahead and change it. That's what wikis are for.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 05:37, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:[[WhatHappened|Historical reasons]]. The original wiki used software that only supported [http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CamelCase CamelCase]. For new pages it is fine to use free links. I suggest not renaming pages, as many of them have good search ranking. [[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 07:03, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
I see now. And thanks for the WhatHappened link, Andrel. I managed to recover two pages so far from web archive. I wonder if I'll savage it further.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 08:28, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
== ICECast2 vs vBulletin ==<br />
<br />
Hi there,<br />
Fisrt let me thank you all the great work and the self performance over the ICECast streaming server<br />
<br />
I also Wonder if anyone had included ICECast directly into a vBulletin board having it worked from there on ..meaning enbable to use same username,permission and prefference from the database itself running on MySQL 5 having as if setting permission on for a usergroupe from there to enable them streaming out on your ICECast server and others can apply and yet just participate into the main forum itself<br />
<br />
I do have both running-up over my dedicated server now meanwhile if any would want to help me out creating like this hack or template am willing to give them all access for working over it <br />
can YOU imagine how friendly and powerful that ICECast would mean then<br />
<br />
hey give me a shout if willing to try it<br />
<br />
admin@gysmo.net<br />
<br />
== News ==<br />
<br />
Hi,<br />
<br />
I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items... Someone has made a graphical interface for ffmpeg2theora at http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Other-VIDEO-Tools/GFrontEnd-for-ffmpeg2theora.shtml<br />
<br />
I don't know the technical difficulties of building such a tool, but regardless, the ability for a common Windows user like myself to be able to just easily convert a proprietary file format to Ogg-Theora is really cool... I tested it out on the sample WMV file that came with this laptop, and the converted file worked great in Cortado... Of course, news about programs that allow one to record directly to Ogg-Theora would be even better, but this is still very important, imo... [[User:Brettz9|Brettz9]] 20:56, 4 July 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .NET :-( ==<br />
<br />
> I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items<br />
<br />
Check it out: > Requirements: .NET Framework 2.0<br />
<br />
Also, with 1.5 MiB size it's bigger than FFMPEG2THEORA itself (1.3 MiB after recompressing with UPX 3.0 --ultra-brute) - not that VERY good IMHO.<br />
<br />
: Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes? That's a drop in the bucket of most hard drives nowadays, no? And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too). My interest in seeing it announced is not how well it is implemented--if there are better alternatives let them be known--but that such a tool exists and it works (at least if you get the requirements).<br />
<br />
== MiB ||| .NET ==<br />
<br />
> Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes?<br />
<br />
NO. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix]]<br />
<br />
> And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too)<br />
<br />
I don't have .NET and don't like it :-( Finally, the important thing is the FFMPEG2THEOA core and it works perfectly for me without .NET ;-)<br />
<br />
== Link to Games in Demonstrations Section? ==<br />
<br />
Shouldn't there be a link to [[Games_that_use_Theora]] in the section with other demonstrations? Maybe there's not enough games listed on the page to warrant it?<br />
--[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 11:47, 27 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Yes. There's only two games listed right now. I'm pretty sure there's more out there. Sim9, can you help us listing more games?--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 11:56, 28 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I'm sure you're right, there ''has'' to be more than two. Theora (and Vorbis) is now by default included in the Torque game engine, so there must be a lot of games using it by now. I just polled the Torque community to see if they know of any to help us fill up the list with some successful integrations! --[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 19:02, 29 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Add xvid it's opensource ==<br />
Please add xvid to choosable video format in ogv and others.<br />
It's an open source, mature codec and doesn't have encoder problems theora currently has.<br />
Embedding it makes possible to show off ogv files with a codec that shows the tru power of ogv.<br />
<br />
Please make it possible to put this in, so .ogv can be used immediatelly with xvid and vorbis/speex/flac to create a mature and temporary solution until theora 1.0 hits the digital streets.<br />
Then users can just batch convert it with their applications whenever they feel/want to do it.<br />
(When they think theora is ready.)<br />
Could someone please look into this and tell me if this is possible and/or will be integrated?<br />
--[] 1 February 2008 <br />
<br />
You should read about the issues a bit before filling up the whole wiki with so many questions. Most of your questions, concerns and statements have already been thought about. In this case here, Xvid cannot be considered because it is a patented format. That means it's not a free format like Theora and Xiph cannot use it. Theora is currently now undergoing the last stages of beta to version 1.0 and quality is already at pair with Xvid. Also, users can't simply transcode from one video format to another; you lose quality everytime you do it, because most video formats are lossy.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:37, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Random access Ogg Vorbis decoder written in Java. ==<br />
<br />
And I am very glad that now you have an encoder written in Java. Can vorbis-java-1.0.0 also do the decoding?<br />
Is there an example of how to use vorbis-java decoder?<br />
If yes, can it seek, i.e. decode an Ogg Vorbis bitstream from a random position?<br />
--[[User:Sergey|Sergey]] 12:53, 9 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video ==<br />
Lagarith is a lossless video codec. Please support it, with supporting I mean that it can be used in the ogg and annodex containers as a native video format.<br />
--[] 4 May 2008 <br />
<br />
:There is also HuffYUV besides Lagarith. Also the new Dirac codec supports lostless compression, reportedly better than anything else. Agree, a lostless codec should be added. Just carefully select one of them ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 01:31, 4 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Theora should also get, have a lossless mode. <br />
::No need for a new codec, just a lossless mode for all video codec please.[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 4 Aug 2009</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=10474Talk:Main Page2009-08-05T15:30:53Z<p>Vmol: /* For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video */</p>
<hr />
<div>According to [[Special:Popularpages]], the various pages in the Demonstration section are the most visited parts of the wiki, so I moved that section to the top of the main page. --[[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 09:19, 26 April 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Work in Progress ==<br />
<br />
It's not clear on first view (to me at least) that<br />
[[Main Page#Work in Progress]] is a link to<br />
[[Work In Progress]] (as none of the other section headings<br />
are). Possibly it should be a normal heading with the link<br />
in a short text below (à la [[Main Page#Other software]]).<br />
<br />
[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 05:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
You are free to fix that. It's a wiki after all -- [[User:Jmspeex|Jmspeex]] 19:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
Done (just didn't want to trample all over the front page) -- [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 04:33, 2 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Lock This Page ==<br />
<br />
On all/most other wikis the Main Page is locked so only admins can edit it. Due to the amount of vandalism, I think the [[Main Page]] should be locked and all changes discussed here. --[[User:SonicChao|SonicChao]] 05:11, 27 August 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Done !<br />
<br />
== Paranoia / cdparanoia ==<br />
<br />
Why is there no listing under software of paranoia or cdparanoia? Also, there is no listing on the main xiph.org page. Is that software acknowlegded? --[[User:WhiteDragon|WhiteDragon]] 19:52, 9 September 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Suggestion :-O ==<br />
First I want to congratulate you on the wonderful work being done. Thank you very much :-)<br />
Please allow anonymous edits (like wikipedia does) b'caus i'm too lazy to login :-)<br />
<br />
:I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the ton of hidden links I just culled has nothing to do with you... I can't speak for the people running Xiph but requiring a login reduces some of the flood of spam that shows up here, and Wikipedia has many more resources available to deal with it than this wiki does. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 06:06, 24 November 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Proposal for a developer section ==<br />
<br />
As more developers start to "get it" about how ultra cool Ogg / Vorbis / Theora / etc is, wouldn't it be great to have a wiki section devoted to helping these budding programmers along? eg: i've written some nice code i'd be happy to share. Could contain a programming FAQ, how-to's, and real code. Thoughts? [[User:Davec|Davec]] 13:44, 6 December 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Why CamelCase? ==<br />
<br />
MediaWiki supports free links, why are most page titles in the CamelCase format? - [[User:Sikon|Sikon]] 05:34, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:CamelCase? I don't see what you mean. If you think something's wrong, you may go ahead and change it. That's what wikis are for.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 05:37, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:[[WhatHappened|Historical reasons]]. The original wiki used software that only supported [http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CamelCase CamelCase]. For new pages it is fine to use free links. I suggest not renaming pages, as many of them have good search ranking. [[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 07:03, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
I see now. And thanks for the WhatHappened link, Andrel. I managed to recover two pages so far from web archive. I wonder if I'll savage it further.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 08:28, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
== ICECast2 vs vBulletin ==<br />
<br />
Hi there,<br />
Fisrt let me thank you all the great work and the self performance over the ICECast streaming server<br />
<br />
I also Wonder if anyone had included ICECast directly into a vBulletin board having it worked from there on ..meaning enbable to use same username,permission and prefference from the database itself running on MySQL 5 having as if setting permission on for a usergroupe from there to enable them streaming out on your ICECast server and others can apply and yet just participate into the main forum itself<br />
<br />
I do have both running-up over my dedicated server now meanwhile if any would want to help me out creating like this hack or template am willing to give them all access for working over it <br />
can YOU imagine how friendly and powerful that ICECast would mean then<br />
<br />
hey give me a shout if willing to try it<br />
<br />
admin@gysmo.net<br />
<br />
== News ==<br />
<br />
Hi,<br />
<br />
I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items... Someone has made a graphical interface for ffmpeg2theora at http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Other-VIDEO-Tools/GFrontEnd-for-ffmpeg2theora.shtml<br />
<br />
I don't know the technical difficulties of building such a tool, but regardless, the ability for a common Windows user like myself to be able to just easily convert a proprietary file format to Ogg-Theora is really cool... I tested it out on the sample WMV file that came with this laptop, and the converted file worked great in Cortado... Of course, news about programs that allow one to record directly to Ogg-Theora would be even better, but this is still very important, imo... [[User:Brettz9|Brettz9]] 20:56, 4 July 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .NET :-( ==<br />
<br />
> I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items<br />
<br />
Check it out: > Requirements: .NET Framework 2.0<br />
<br />
Also, with 1.5 MiB size it's bigger than FFMPEG2THEORA itself (1.3 MiB after recompressing with UPX 3.0 --ultra-brute) - not that VERY good IMHO.<br />
<br />
: Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes? That's a drop in the bucket of most hard drives nowadays, no? And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too). My interest in seeing it announced is not how well it is implemented--if there are better alternatives let them be known--but that such a tool exists and it works (at least if you get the requirements).<br />
<br />
== MiB ||| .NET ==<br />
<br />
> Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes?<br />
<br />
NO. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix]]<br />
<br />
> And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too)<br />
<br />
I don't have .NET and don't like it :-( Finally, the important thing is the FFMPEG2THEOA core and it works perfectly for me without .NET ;-)<br />
<br />
== Link to Games in Demonstrations Section? ==<br />
<br />
Shouldn't there be a link to [[Games_that_use_Theora]] in the section with other demonstrations? Maybe there's not enough games listed on the page to warrant it?<br />
--[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 11:47, 27 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Yes. There's only two games listed right now. I'm pretty sure there's more out there. Sim9, can you help us listing more games?--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 11:56, 28 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I'm sure you're right, there ''has'' to be more than two. Theora (and Vorbis) is now by default included in the Torque game engine, so there must be a lot of games using it by now. I just polled the Torque community to see if they know of any to help us fill up the list with some successful integrations! --[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 19:02, 29 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Add xvid it's opensource ==<br />
Please add xvid to choosable video format in ogv and others.<br />
It's an open source, mature codec and doesn't have encoder problems theora currently has.<br />
Embedding it makes possible to show off ogv files with a codec that shows the tru power of ogv.<br />
<br />
Please make it possible to put this in, so .ogv can be used immediatelly with xvid and vorbis/speex/flac to create a mature and temporary solution until theora 1.0 hits the digital streets.<br />
Then users can just batch convert it with their applications whenever they feel/want to do it.<br />
(When they think theora is ready.)<br />
Could someone please look into this and tell me if this is possible and/or will be integrated?<br />
--[] 1 February 2008 <br />
<br />
You should read about the issues a bit before filling up the whole wiki with so many questions. Most of your questions, concerns and statements have already been thought about. In this case here, Xvid cannot be considered because it is a patented format. That means it's not a free format like Theora and Xiph cannot use it. Theora is currently now undergoing the last stages of beta to version 1.0 and quality is already at pair with Xvid. Also, users can't simply transcode from one video format to another; you lose quality everytime you do it, because most video formats are lossy.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:37, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Random access Ogg Vorbis decoder written in Java. ==<br />
<br />
And I am very glad that now you have an encoder written in Java. Can vorbis-java-1.0.0 also do the decoding?<br />
Is there an example of how to use vorbis-java decoder?<br />
If yes, can it seek, i.e. decode an Ogg Vorbis bitstream from a random position?<br />
--[[User:Sergey|Sergey]] 12:53, 9 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video ==<br />
Lagarith is a lossless video codec. Please support it, with supporting I mean that it can be used in the ogg and annodex containers as a native video format.<br />
--[] 4 May 2008 <br />
<br />
:There is also HuffYUV besides Lagarith. Also the new Dirac codec supports lostless compression, reportedly better than anything else. Agree, a lostless codec should be added. Just carefully select one of them ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 01:31, 4 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::Theora should also get, have a lossless mode. <br />
No need for a new codec, just a lossless mode for all video codec please.[[User:Vmol|Vmol]] 4 Aug 2009</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:OggSpots&diff=10463Talk:OggSpots2009-07-31T14:38:02Z<p>Vmol: </p>
<hr />
<div>This spec seems to supersede [[OggMNG]] (which is good, since this spec seems much more likely to be implemented), but isn't written with one of [[OggMNG]]'s use cases in mind, namely graphical subtitles and other kinds of overlays on another video stream. To support this case, you at least need the ability to specify a transparent background colour, which seems trivial enough. Some means of specifying whether an OggSpots stream is intended to be an overlay or not might also be nice, and this was discussed briefly in the [[OggMNG]] spec, but no decision was reached.<br />
<br />
:Why restricting uses? Don't these codecs stand for freedom? <br />
:Please support all cases. [[User:Vmol|Vmol]]<br />
<br />
Anyhoo, I think that this is an important feature for this kind of codec, so I just wanted to chime in and make sure it wasn't forgotten. Subtitle support in [http://thoggen.net/ Thoggen] for instance, is blocking on this capability.<br />
<br />
[[User:Jdoda|Jdoda]]<br />
<br />
I don't think OggSpots is supposed to replace OggMNG in any way -- [[User:Jmspeex|Jmspeex]] 16:41, 22 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
That's fair, though I don't see any compelling technical reasons for OggMNG if OggSpots gets off the ground. I merely wanted to point out that graphical subtitles and overlays would be a nice use for OggSpots, if the spec took them into acount, which seems like it would take only a minimal effort. -- [[User:Jdoda|Jdoda]] 19:59, 22 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
I came to OggSpots looking for a bitmap overlay format. I would like to raise a few points.<br />
<br />
* What is the format of the BG-color fields? The BG-color field in the header is four bytes; if these are RGBA, there is already a simple way to specify a transparent background color.<br />
<br />
* How to mark the end of an overlay? Stand-alone images stay until the next image starts, but overlays may end earlier. An empty image packet could do the job.<br />
<br />
* Metadata? Would it be useful to add a comment packet, or is metadata provided by OggSkeleton enough? And would it be useful to specify some standard key (maybe lang/language and type=overlay)?<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Cigaes|Cigaes]], 2006-04-15T12:01:00Z</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:OggSpots&diff=10462Talk:OggSpots2009-07-31T14:19:03Z<p>Vmol: </p>
<hr />
<div>This spec seems to supersede [[OggMNG]] (which is good, since this spec seems much more likely to be implemented), but isn't written with one of [[OggMNG]]'s use cases in mind, namely graphical subtitles and other kinds of overlays on another video stream. To support this case, you at least need the ability to specify a transparent background colour, which seems trivial enough. Some means of specifying whether an OggSpots stream is intended to be an overlay or not might also be nice, and this was discussed briefly in the [[OggMNG]] spec, but no decision was reached.<br />
:Why restricting uses? Don't these codecs stand for freedom? <br />
<br />
Anyhoo, I think that this is an important feature for this kind of codec, so I just wanted to chime in and make sure it wasn't forgotten. Subtitle support in [http://thoggen.net/ Thoggen] for instance, is blocking on this capability.<br />
<br />
[[User:Jdoda|Jdoda]]<br />
<br />
I don't think OggSpots is supposed to replace OggMNG in any way -- [[User:Jmspeex|Jmspeex]] 16:41, 22 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
That's fair, though I don't see any compelling technical reasons for OggMNG if OggSpots gets off the ground. I merely wanted to point out that graphical subtitles and overlays would be a nice use for OggSpots, if the spec took them into acount, which seems like it would take only a minimal effort. -- [[User:Jdoda|Jdoda]] 19:59, 22 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
I came to OggSpots looking for a bitmap overlay format. I would like to raise a few points.<br />
<br />
* What is the format of the BG-color fields? The BG-color field in the header is four bytes; if these are RGBA, there is already a simple way to specify a transparent background color.<br />
<br />
* How to mark the end of an overlay? Stand-alone images stay until the next image starts, but overlays may end earlier. An empty image packet could do the job.<br />
<br />
* Metadata? Would it be useful to add a comment packet, or is metadata provided by OggSkeleton enough? And would it be useful to specify some standard key (maybe lang/language and type=overlay)?<br />
<br />
-- [[User:Cigaes|Cigaes]], 2006-04-15T12:01:00Z</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:OggKate&diff=10461Talk:OggKate2009-07-31T14:13:24Z<p>Vmol: added possible additions restrictions trap</p>
<hr />
<div>== Kate is going to have support for all languages in the world, right ? ==<br />
(This can be useful to make a video where a user can choose the right subtitle language.)<br />
<br />
:OggKate supports Unicode (UTF-8), so yes. [[User:Martin.leese|Martin Leese]] 15:46, 29 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
::With the right fonts, I have a test stream that displays Japanese, Arabic, Chinese, as well as Latin characters. The only thing left open there is how to deal with languages like Arabic which are written right to left. The language in a stream is set in the header as a language/region tag, such as en_US, or just en. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Wed Jan 30 18:20:49 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
::Right to left now supported (in my local version of xine). Language directionality can be overridden for each data packet from the default given in the headers. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Thurs Jan 31 13:29 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
Be careful to make sure you're using the latest ISO standard (the one with the highest number) about languages. <br />
Because there are already a few so you could miss and end up using a wrong one. <br />
For the rest Kate looks very good ;)<br />
<br />
:: Well, I am not certain about this - assuming you are referring to the latest RFC about language identification (the latest one is RFC 4646 I believe), then it is kinda complex, and I plan on supporting only part of it (yes, I know this is probably the standard's bane to have partial implementations). A full language tag can be quite long, and that RFC suggests a max "sane" size of 42 bytes. I have actually looked at what I'll do with that this weekend and am currently going with a 15 character string, which should handle easily things like primary tag and one (or two small) secondary tags, like "en_GB". Language plus country should cover most needs. However, it is possible to specify a language override in each data packet, if precision is required. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Wed Feb 6 12:08:03 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
:I believe it would be useful if the person who asked the question went away and learnt something about Unicode. From the Unicode website, "Unicode provides a unique number for every character, no matter what the platform, no matter what the program, no matter what the language." There are around 7000 written languages in the world. (There is no agreement on an exact figure.) Unicode does the lot. [[User:Martin.leese|Martin Leese]] 10:06, 5 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: As a note, Kate uses UTF-8 only at the moment, and supports 31 bit UCS space (if a define is set, off by default), and current code points to 0x10ffff (eg, the currently defined 16 planes). I haven't quite ruled out UTF-16 and UTF-32, but if I add them in, libkate will have an auto conversion option for client code. Note that Kate doesn't concern itself with rules of ligatures, etc, defined by Unicode, that is up to the rendering client. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Wed Feb 6 12:16:05 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
<br />
:::I have learned stuff about unicode. That was stupid of me if you think that I was asking about Unicode supporting it. <br />
I was asking about Kate supporting all unicode features. <br />
(I didn't knew about Unicode having language, country,... mapping.) <br />
If you want to tell me that Unicode has a region, language, currency,... mapping on top of a character mapping. <br />
Then say it clearly. <br />
<br />
Reading this page: [http://cldr.unicode.org/] <br />
All the localization stuff are under the name CLDR. <br />
CLDR is about the Unicode Common Locale Data Repository<br />
It does a lot more than just language and region mapping. <br />
In fact, the other things are also very useful to have. <br />
<br />
(e.g. Engineers and the whole scientific community would be very pleased with the number localization.) <br />
(Because of the decimal and thousands separator issue: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator] )<br />
<br />
There is a region definitions header present in Kate. <br />
For the CLDR information, there needs to be a new header. <br />
Will there be a CLDR Definitions header or extended Unicode Definitions header somewhere in the future? <br />
Please?<br />
<br />
== Embedding of bitmap fonts ==<br />
<br />
Embedding bitmap fonts in the stream seems a very odd idea to me in in this day and age where display resolutions increase constantly and the number of output devices varies so much (desktop display, mobile phone, internet tablet etc.). What's the point of it? I think this idea should just be dropped. (TimMüller)<br />
<br />
:For simple text subtitles, this is very true, but the idea was allow control over the presentation<br />
:of the screen for other uses. Since images are supported, adding bitmap fonts is trivial, since it<br />
:is just a mapping from code point to bitmap index. The goal is not to encourage using custom fonts<br />
:but to allow it if needed.<br />
:Another point was that people wanting control over the font might use bitmaps directly to fake text<br />
:in a particular font, and this would result in visible text that couldn't be interpreted (eg, by<br />
:text to speech software).<br />
:That said, I do agree with your argument. [[User:Ogg.k.ogg.k|Ogg.k.ogg.k]]<br />
<br />
==Possible additions restrictions trap==<br />
<br />
Please don't restrict your codec from having more than 256 colors in a bitmap. <br />
Applications can do it anyway and didn't these codecs where to create freedom in the first place? <br />
There is nothing wrong with allowing these things and MNG in overlays. <br />
OggSpots is meant for having a timed image track, not for image overlays. <br />
OggKate isn't duplicating because it just isn't in the same scope. <br />
High quality images in OggSpots will look very weird with 256 low-quality images overlays. <br />
It probably won't look good.<br />
<br />
Please do allow the embedding of shared data (fonts). <br />
That's a fantastic idea you've got there, don't let it slide. <br />
It would be great to be able to make a font, add it to the file and use it for subtitle's. <br />
It would solve the platform dependency issue with fonts, which is currently a big deal. <br />
(There would even be more freedom added to your codec, this way.) <br />
<br />
Please add support for svgfonts. <br />
They have the same advantages for fonts as svg has for images. <br />
It's vector based which means very good looking fonts. <br />
<br />
What is your opinion about svgfonts?</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:OggKate&diff=10460Talk:OggKate2009-07-31T14:03:32Z<p>Vmol: /* Kate is going to have support for all languages in the world, right ? */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Kate is going to have support for all languages in the world, right ? ==<br />
(This can be useful to make a video where a user can choose the right subtitle language.)<br />
<br />
:OggKate supports Unicode (UTF-8), so yes. [[User:Martin.leese|Martin Leese]] 15:46, 29 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
::With the right fonts, I have a test stream that displays Japanese, Arabic, Chinese, as well as Latin characters. The only thing left open there is how to deal with languages like Arabic which are written right to left. The language in a stream is set in the header as a language/region tag, such as en_US, or just en. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Wed Jan 30 18:20:49 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
::Right to left now supported (in my local version of xine). Language directionality can be overridden for each data packet from the default given in the headers. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Thurs Jan 31 13:29 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
Be careful to make sure you're using the latest ISO standard (the one with the highest number) about languages. <br />
Because there are already a few so you could miss and end up using a wrong one. <br />
For the rest Kate looks very good ;)<br />
<br />
:: Well, I am not certain about this - assuming you are referring to the latest RFC about language identification (the latest one is RFC 4646 I believe), then it is kinda complex, and I plan on supporting only part of it (yes, I know this is probably the standard's bane to have partial implementations). A full language tag can be quite long, and that RFC suggests a max "sane" size of 42 bytes. I have actually looked at what I'll do with that this weekend and am currently going with a 15 character string, which should handle easily things like primary tag and one (or two small) secondary tags, like "en_GB". Language plus country should cover most needs. However, it is possible to specify a language override in each data packet, if precision is required. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Wed Feb 6 12:08:03 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
:I believe it would be useful if the person who asked the question went away and learnt something about Unicode. From the Unicode website, "Unicode provides a unique number for every character, no matter what the platform, no matter what the program, no matter what the language." There are around 7000 written languages in the world. (There is no agreement on an exact figure.) Unicode does the lot. [[User:Martin.leese|Martin Leese]] 10:06, 5 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: As a note, Kate uses UTF-8 only at the moment, and supports 31 bit UCS space (if a define is set, off by default), and current code points to 0x10ffff (eg, the currently defined 16 planes). I haven't quite ruled out UTF-16 and UTF-32, but if I add them in, libkate will have an auto conversion option for client code. Note that Kate doesn't concern itself with rules of ligatures, etc, defined by Unicode, that is up to the rendering client. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Wed Feb 6 12:16:05 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
<br />
:::I have learned stuff about unicode. That was stupid of me if you think that I was asking about Unicode supporting it. <br />
I was asking about Kate supporting all unicode features. <br />
(I didn't knew about Unicode having language, country,... mapping.) <br />
If you want to tell me that Unicode has a region, language, currency,... mapping on top of a character mapping. <br />
Then say it clearly. <br />
<br />
Reading this page: [http://cldr.unicode.org/] <br />
All the localization stuff are under the name CLDR. <br />
CLDR is about the Unicode Common Locale Data Repository<br />
It does a lot more than just language and region mapping. <br />
In fact, the other things are also very useful to have. <br />
<br />
(e.g. Engineers and the whole scientific community would be very pleased with the number localization.) <br />
(Because of the decimal and thousands separator issue: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator] )<br />
<br />
There is a region definitions header present in Kate. <br />
For the CLDR information, there needs to be a new header. <br />
Will there be a CLDR Definitions header or extended Unicode Definitions header somewhere in the future? <br />
Please?<br />
<br />
== Embedding of bitmap fonts ==<br />
<br />
Embedding bitmap fonts in the stream seems a very odd idea to me in in this day and age where display resolutions increase constantly and the number of output devices varies so much (desktop display, mobile phone, internet tablet etc.). What's the point of it? I think this idea should just be dropped. (TimMüller)<br />
<br />
:For simple text subtitles, this is very true, but the idea was allow control over the presentation<br />
:of the screen for other uses. Since images are supported, adding bitmap fonts is trivial, since it<br />
:is just a mapping from code point to bitmap index. The goal is not to encourage using custom fonts<br />
:but to allow it if needed.<br />
:Another point was that people wanting control over the font might use bitmaps directly to fake text<br />
:in a particular font, and this would result in visible text that couldn't be interpreted (eg, by<br />
:text to speech software).<br />
:That said, I do agree with your argument. [[User:Ogg.k.ogg.k|Ogg.k.ogg.k]]</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:OggKate&diff=10459Talk:OggKate2009-07-31T14:01:24Z<p>Vmol: Answered</p>
<hr />
<div>== Kate is going to have support for all languages in the world, right ? ==<br />
(This can be useful to make a video where a user can choose the right subtitle language.)<br />
<br />
:OggKate supports Unicode (UTF-8), so yes. [[User:Martin.leese|Martin Leese]] 15:46, 29 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
::With the right fonts, I have a test stream that displays Japanese, Arabic, Chinese, as well as Latin characters. The only thing left open there is how to deal with languages like Arabic which are written right to left. The language in a stream is set in the header as a language/region tag, such as en_US, or just en. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Wed Jan 30 18:20:49 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
::Right to left now supported (in my local version of xine). Language directionality can be overridden for each data packet from the default given in the headers. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Thurs Jan 31 13:29 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
Be careful to make sure you're using the latest ISO standard (the one with the highest number) about languages. <br />
Because there are already a few so you could miss and end up using a wrong one. <br />
For the rest Kate looks very good ;)<br />
<br />
:: Well, I am not certain about this - assuming you are referring to the latest RFC about language identification (the latest one is RFC 4646 I believe), then it is kinda complex, and I plan on supporting only part of it (yes, I know this is probably the standard's bane to have partial implementations). A full language tag can be quite long, and that RFC suggests a max "sane" size of 42 bytes. I have actually looked at what I'll do with that this weekend and am currently going with a 15 character string, which should handle easily things like primary tag and one (or two small) secondary tags, like "en_GB". Language plus country should cover most needs. However, it is possible to specify a language override in each data packet, if precision is required. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Wed Feb 6 12:08:03 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
:I believe it would be useful if the person who asked the question went away and learnt something about Unicode. From the Unicode website, "Unicode provides a unique number for every character, no matter what the platform, no matter what the program, no matter what the language." There are around 7000 written languages in the world. (There is no agreement on an exact figure.) Unicode does the lot. [[User:Martin.leese|Martin Leese]] 10:06, 5 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: As a note, Kate uses UTF-8 only at the moment, and supports 31 bit UCS space (if a define is set, off by default), and current code points to 0x10ffff (eg, the currently defined 16 planes). I haven't quite ruled out UTF-16 and UTF-32, but if I add them in, libkate will have an auto conversion option for client code. Note that Kate doesn't concern itself with rules of ligatures, etc, defined by Unicode, that is up to the rendering client. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Wed Feb 6 12:16:05 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
<br />
:::I have learned stuff about unicode. That was stupid of me if you think that I was asking about Unicode supporting it. <br />
I was asking about Kate supporting all unicode features. <br />
(I didn't knew about Unicode having language, country,... mapping.) <br />
If you want to tell me that Unicode has a region, language, currency,... mapping on top of a character mapping. <br />
Then say it clearly. <br />
<br />
Reading this page: [http://cldr.unicode.org/] <br />
All the localization stuff are under the name CLDR. <br />
CLDR is about the Unicode Common Locale Data Repository<br />
It does a lot more than just language and region mapping. <br />
In fact, the other things are very useful too. <br />
<br />
It is very useful to have also the other stuff, not just region. <br />
(e.g. Engineers and the whole scientific community would be very pleased with the number localization.) <br />
(Because of the decimal and thousands separator: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator] )<br />
<br />
There is a region definitions header present in Kate. <br />
For the CLDR information, there needs to be a new header. <br />
Will there be a CLDR Definitions header or extended Unicode Definitions header somewhere in the future? <br />
Please?<br />
<br />
<br />
== Embedding of bitmap fonts ==<br />
<br />
Embedding bitmap fonts in the stream seems a very odd idea to me in in this day and age where display resolutions increase constantly and the number of output devices varies so much (desktop display, mobile phone, internet tablet etc.). What's the point of it? I think this idea should just be dropped. (TimMüller)<br />
<br />
:For simple text subtitles, this is very true, but the idea was allow control over the presentation<br />
:of the screen for other uses. Since images are supported, adding bitmap fonts is trivial, since it<br />
:is just a mapping from code point to bitmap index. The goal is not to encourage using custom fonts<br />
:but to allow it if needed.<br />
:Another point was that people wanting control over the font might use bitmaps directly to fake text<br />
:in a particular font, and this would result in visible text that couldn't be interpreted (eg, by<br />
:text to speech software).<br />
:That said, I do agree with your argument. [[User:Ogg.k.ogg.k|Ogg.k.ogg.k]]</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:OggKate&diff=10197Talk:OggKate2009-05-04T18:17:12Z<p>Vmol: Corrected spelling mistake, grammer, sentence mistake</p>
<hr />
<div>== Kate is going to have support for all languages in the world, right ? ==<br />
(This can be useful to make a video where a user can choose the right subtitle language.)<br />
<br />
:OggKate supports Unicode (UTF-8), so yes. [[User:Martin.leese|Martin Leese]] 15:46, 29 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
::With the right fonts, I have a test stream that displays Japanese, Arabic, Chinese, as well as Latin characters. The only thing left open there is how to deal with languages like Arabic which are written right to left. The language in a stream is set in the header as a language/region tag, such as en_US, or just en. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Wed Jan 30 18:20:49 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
::Right to left now supported (in my local version of xine). Language directionality can be overridden for each data packet from the default given in the headers. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Thurs Jan 31 13:29 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
Be careful to make sure you're using the latest ISO standard (the one with the highest number) about languages. <br />
Because there are already a few so you could miss and end up using a wrong one. <br />
For the rest Kate looks very good ;)<br />
<br />
:: Well, I am not certain about this - assuming you are referring to the latest RFC about language identification (the latest one is RFC 4646 I believe), then it is kinda complex, and I plan on supporting only part of it (yes, I know this is probably the standard's bane to have partial implementations). A full language tag can be quite long, and that RFC suggests a max "sane" size of 42 bytes. I have actually looked at what I'll do with that this weekend and am currently going with a 15 character string, which should handle easily things like primary tag and one (or two small) secondary tags, like "en_GB". Language plus country should cover most needs. However, it is possible to specify a language override in each data packet, if precision is required. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Wed Feb 6 12:08:03 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
:I believe it would be useful if the person who asked the question went away and learnt something about Unicode. From the Unicode website, "Unicode provides a unique number for every character, no matter what the platform, no matter what the program, no matter what the language." There are around 7000 written languages in the world. (There is no agreement on an exact figure.) Unicode does the lot. [[User:Martin.leese|Martin Leese]] 10:06, 5 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: As a note, Kate uses UTF-8 only at the moment, and supports 31 bit UCS space (if a define is set, off by default), and current code points to 0x10ffff (eg, the currently defined 16 planes). I haven't quite ruled out UTF-16 and UTF-32, but if I add them in, libkate will have an auto conversion option for client code. Note that Kate doesn't concern itself with rules of ligatures, etc, defined by Unicode, that is up to the rendering client. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Wed Feb 6 12:16:05 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
== Embedding of bitmap fonts ==<br />
<br />
Embedding bitmap fonts in the stream seems a very odd idea to me in in this day and age where display resolutions increase constantly and the number of output devices varies so much (desktop display, mobile phone, internet tablet etc.). What's the point of it? I think this idea should just be dropped. (TimMüller)<br />
<br />
:For simple text subtitles, this is very true, but the idea was allow control over the presentation<br />
:of the screen for other uses. Since images are supported, adding bitmap fonts is trivial, since it<br />
:is just a mapping from code point to bitmap index. The goal is not to encourage using custom fonts<br />
:but to allow it if needed.<br />
:Another point was that people wanting control over the font might use bitmaps directly to fake text<br />
:in a particular font, and this would result in visible text that couldn't be interpreted (eg, by<br />
:text to speech software).<br />
:That said, I do agree with your argument. [[User:Ogg.k.ogg.k|Ogg.k.ogg.k]]</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:OggKate&diff=10196Talk:OggKate2009-05-04T18:15:09Z<p>Vmol: corrected spelling mistake, sentence construct</p>
<hr />
<div>== Kate is going to have support for all languages in the world, right ? ==<br />
(This can be userfull to make a video where a user can choose the right subtitle language.)<br />
<br />
:OggKate supports Unicode (UTF-8), so yes. [[User:Martin.leese|Martin Leese]] 15:46, 29 January 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
::With the right fonts, I have a test stream that displays Japanese, Arabic, Chinese, as well as Latin characters. The only thing left open there is how to deal with languages like Arabic which are written right to left. The language in a stream is set in the header as a language/region tag, such as en_US, or just en. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Wed Jan 30 18:20:49 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
::Right to left now supported (in my local version of xine). Language directionality can be overridden for each data packet from the default given in the headers. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Thurs Jan 31 13:29 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
Be careful to make sure you're using the latest ISO standard (the one with the highest number) about languages. <br />
Because there are already a few so you could miss and end up using a wrong one. <br />
For the rest Kate looks very good ;)<br />
<br />
:: Well, I am not certain about this - assuming you are referring to the latest RFC about language identification (the latest one is RFC 4646 I believe), then it is kinda complex, and I plan on supporting only part of it (yes, I know this is probably the standard's bane to have partial implementations). A full language tag can be quite long, and that RFC suggests a max "sane" size of 42 bytes. I have actually looked at what I'll do with that this weekend and am currently going with a 15 character string, which should handle easily things like primary tag and one (or two small) secondary tags, like "en_GB". Language plus country should cover most needs. However, it is possible to specify a language override in each data packet, if precision is required. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Wed Feb 6 12:08:03 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
:I believe it would be useful if someone went away and learnt something about Unicode. From the Unicode website, "Unicode provides a unique number for every character, no matter what the platform, no matter what the program, no matter what the language." There are around 7000 written languages in the world. (There is no agreement on an exact figure.) Unicode does the lot. [[User:Martin.leese|Martin Leese]] 10:06, 5 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
:: As a note, Kate uses UTF-8 only at the moment, and supports 31 bit UCS space (if a define is set, off by default), and current code points to 0x10ffff (eg, the currently defined 16 planes). I haven't quite ruled out UTF-16 and UTF-32, but if I add them in, libkate will have an auto conversion option for client code. Note that Kate doesn't concern itself with rules of ligatures, etc, defined by Unicode, that is up to the rendering client. [[User:ogg.k.ogg.k]] Wed Feb 6 12:16:05 UTC 2008<br />
<br />
== Embedding of bitmap fonts ==<br />
<br />
Embedding bitmap fonts in the stream seems a very odd idea to me in in this day and age where display resolutions increase constantly and the number of output devices varies so much (desktop display, mobile phone, internet tablet etc.). What's the point of it? I think this idea should just be dropped. (TimMüller)<br />
<br />
:For simple text subtitles, this is very true, but the idea was allow control over the presentation<br />
:of the screen for other uses. Since images are supported, adding bitmap fonts is trivial, since it<br />
:is just a mapping from code point to bitmap index. The goal is not to encourage using custom fonts<br />
:but to allow it if needed.<br />
:Another point was that people wanting control over the font might use bitmaps directly to fake text<br />
:in a particular font, and this would result in visible text that couldn't be interpreted (eg, by<br />
:text to speech software).<br />
:That said, I do agree with your argument. [[User:Ogg.k.ogg.k|Ogg.k.ogg.k]]</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:OggMNG&diff=10195Talk:OggMNG2009-05-04T17:32:39Z<p>Vmol: added a word</p>
<hr />
<div>On January 29, 2008, under ''Implementation Notes'', wrote: <br />
:Because of OggSpots, an extra presentational format for presentation slide-like stuff isn't needed<br />
:In a presentation, you can also just pause the presentation, video for showing things.<br />
<br />
On August 9, 2005, under ''Further Speculation'', Sayoshant wrote:<br />
:Some people, including staff members of Mozilla, believe MNG should be replaced by APNG, a superset extension of PNG with multi-image support, but that should still be backwards-compatibility.<br />
:<br />
:I, non-Xiph member, wonder on other hand if OggMNG should become OggAPNG or actually keep the project as MNG.<br />
:: Keep it as mng because apng and mng are NOT THE SAME things:<br />
:: mng >>>http://www.libpng.org/pub/mng/<br />
:: apng >>>http://animatedpng.com/</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:Metadata&diff=10194Talk:Metadata2009-05-04T17:28:12Z<p>Vmol: Fixed spelling mistake of mine</p>
<hr />
<div>== IEEE Learning Object Metadata ==<br />
The proposed solution is RDF + Dublin Core. Has anybody looked into supporting IEEE LOM, the Learning Object Metadata standard that I believe can incorporate Dublin Core? This is being adopted by key players in the e-learning world (IMS Global Learning, and SCORM), and would be valuable for the applications I am interested in.<br />
<br />
:Fred Kintanar<br />
:Cebu City, Philippines<br />
<br />
Having just looked at the [http://ltsc.ieee.org/wg12/ IEEE LOM page], I see they<br />
have XML and RDF bindings defined. The current view seems to be that you package<br />
a RDF or RDF/XML description of the content into the Ogg stream, with Dublin<br />
Core being a minimum feature set (Dublin Core certainly doesn't provide everything<br />
one might want). Handlers would most likely ignore or "dumb-down" relations they<br />
don't understand. In that case this would certainly work, but at the moment there<br />
is no clear plan (details like references between and into logical streams haven't<br />
really been considered as far as I can tell).<br />
<br />
What you want to do may already be possible with [http://ltsc.ieee.org/wg12/ Annodex];<br />
try their [http://lists.annodex.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ mailing lists],<br />
or the [http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/ogg-dev Ogg-dev] mailing list.<br />
<br />
:[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 05:48, 30 January 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== MDMF (now renamed M3F) replacing VorbisComments ==<br />
<br />
The article read: <br />
<blockquote><br />
"The format [MDMF] will possibly replace VorbisComments altogether."<br />
</blockquote><br />
<br />
To which Imalone responded:<br />
:This seems unlikely, not least because VorbisComments are much simpler to implement and interpret. Current consensus is that this will be supplementary or take precedence.--[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 06:21, 17 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::As I understand it, the purpose of MDMF is to replace VorbisComments for the use of ''structured'' metadata, allowing VorbisComments to revert to its orginally intended use of "short, text comments ... much like someone jotting a quick note on the bottom of a CDR." I will modify the article to say this. The Vorbis docs even state "arbitrary metadata belongs in a separate logical bitstream (usually an XML stream type) that provides greater structure and machine parseability". [[User:Martin.leese|Martin Leese]] 12:01, 18 September 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:::Then Vorbis will have to be replaced by a successor because else you get backwards compatibility issues when players try to read vorbis with the new meta data format and can't!!!!!! 29 January 2008<br />
<br />
::An Ogg container can contain more than one logical stream. [[M3F]] will be a separate logical stream, and will be separate from the [[Vorbis]] stream. As [[M3F]] does not touch [[Vorbis]], backwards compatibility will not be a problem. [[User:Martin.leese|Martin Leese]] 15:59, 29 January 2008 (PST)</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=10147Talk:Main Page2009-04-01T11:58:42Z<p>Vmol: Removed my name from my previous account</p>
<hr />
<div>According to [[Special:Popularpages]], the various pages in the Demonstration section are the most visited parts of the wiki, so I moved that section to the top of the main page. --[[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 09:19, 26 April 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Work in Progress ==<br />
<br />
It's not clear on first view (to me at least) that<br />
[[Main Page#Work in Progress]] is a link to<br />
[[Work In Progress]] (as none of the other section headings<br />
are). Possibly it should be a normal heading with the link<br />
in a short text below (à la [[Main Page#Other software]]).<br />
<br />
[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 05:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
You are free to fix that. It's a wiki after all -- [[User:Jmspeex|Jmspeex]] 19:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
Done (just didn't want to trample all over the front page) -- [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 04:33, 2 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Lock This Page ==<br />
<br />
On all/most other wikis the Main Page is locked so only admins can edit it. Due to the amount of vandalism, I think the [[Main Page]] should be locked and all changes discussed here. --[[User:SonicChao|SonicChao]] 05:11, 27 August 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Done !<br />
<br />
== Paranoia / cdparanoia ==<br />
<br />
Why is there no listing under software of paranoia or cdparanoia? Also, there is no listing on the main xiph.org page. Is that software acknowlegded? --[[User:WhiteDragon|WhiteDragon]] 19:52, 9 September 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Suggestion :-O ==<br />
First I want to congratulate you on the wonderful work being done. Thank you very much :-)<br />
Please allow anonymous edits (like wikipedia does) b'caus i'm too lazy to login :-)<br />
<br />
:I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the ton of hidden links I just culled has nothing to do with you... I can't speak for the people running Xiph but requiring a login reduces some of the flood of spam that shows up here, and Wikipedia has many more resources available to deal with it than this wiki does. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 06:06, 24 November 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Proposal for a developer section ==<br />
<br />
As more developers start to "get it" about how ultra cool Ogg / Vorbis / Theora / etc is, wouldn't it be great to have a wiki section devoted to helping these budding programmers along? eg: i've written some nice code i'd be happy to share. Could contain a programming FAQ, how-to's, and real code. Thoughts? [[User:Davec|Davec]] 13:44, 6 December 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Why CamelCase? ==<br />
<br />
MediaWiki supports free links, why are most page titles in the CamelCase format? - [[User:Sikon|Sikon]] 05:34, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:CamelCase? I don't see what you mean. If you think something's wrong, you may go ahead and change it. That's what wikis are for.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 05:37, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:[[WhatHappened|Historical reasons]]. The original wiki used software that only supported [http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CamelCase CamelCase]. For new pages it is fine to use free links. I suggest not renaming pages, as many of them have good search ranking. [[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 07:03, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
I see now. And thanks for the WhatHappened link, Andrel. I managed to recover two pages so far from web archive. I wonder if I'll savage it further.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 08:28, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
== ICECast2 vs vBulletin ==<br />
<br />
Hi there,<br />
Fisrt let me thank you all the great work and the self performance over the ICECast streaming server<br />
<br />
I also Wonder if anyone had included ICECast directly into a vBulletin board having it worked from there on ..meaning enbable to use same username,permission and prefference from the database itself running on MySQL 5 having as if setting permission on for a usergroupe from there to enable them streaming out on your ICECast server and others can apply and yet just participate into the main forum itself<br />
<br />
I do have both running-up over my dedicated server now meanwhile if any would want to help me out creating like this hack or template am willing to give them all access for working over it <br />
can YOU imagine how friendly and powerful that ICECast would mean then<br />
<br />
hey give me a shout if willing to try it<br />
<br />
admin@gysmo.net<br />
<br />
== News ==<br />
<br />
Hi,<br />
<br />
I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items... Someone has made a graphical interface for ffmpeg2theora at http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Other-VIDEO-Tools/GFrontEnd-for-ffmpeg2theora.shtml<br />
<br />
I don't know the technical difficulties of building such a tool, but regardless, the ability for a common Windows user like myself to be able to just easily convert a proprietary file format to Ogg-Theora is really cool... I tested it out on the sample WMV file that came with this laptop, and the converted file worked great in Cortado... Of course, news about programs that allow one to record directly to Ogg-Theora would be even better, but this is still very important, imo... [[User:Brettz9|Brettz9]] 20:56, 4 July 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .NET :-( ==<br />
<br />
> I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items<br />
<br />
Check it out: > Requirements: .NET Framework 2.0<br />
<br />
Also, with 1.5 MiB size it's bigger than FFMPEG2THEORA itself (1.3 MiB after recompressing with UPX 3.0 --ultra-brute) - not that VERY good IMHO.<br />
<br />
: Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes? That's a drop in the bucket of most hard drives nowadays, no? And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too). My interest in seeing it announced is not how well it is implemented--if there are better alternatives let them be known--but that such a tool exists and it works (at least if you get the requirements).<br />
<br />
== MiB ||| .NET ==<br />
<br />
> Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes?<br />
<br />
NO. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix]]<br />
<br />
> And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too)<br />
<br />
I don't have .NET and don't like it :-( Finally, the important thing is the FFMPEG2THEOA core and it works perfectly for me without .NET ;-)<br />
<br />
== Link to Games in Demonstrations Section? ==<br />
<br />
Shouldn't there be a link to [[Games_that_use_Theora]] in the section with other demonstrations? Maybe there's not enough games listed on the page to warrant it?<br />
--[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 11:47, 27 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Yes. There's only two games listed right now. I'm pretty sure there's more out there. Sim9, can you help us listing more games?--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 11:56, 28 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I'm sure you're right, there ''has'' to be more than two. Theora (and Vorbis) is now by default included in the Torque game engine, so there must be a lot of games using it by now. I just polled the Torque community to see if they know of any to help us fill up the list with some successful integrations! --[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 19:02, 29 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Add xvid it's opensource ==<br />
Please add xvid to choosable video format in ogv and others.<br />
It's an open source, mature codec and doesn't have encoder problems theora currently has.<br />
Embedding it makes possible to show off ogv files with a codec that shows the tru power of ogv.<br />
<br />
Please make it possible to put this in, so .ogv can be used immediatelly with xvid and vorbis/speex/flac to create a mature and temporary solution until theora 1.0 hits the digital streets.<br />
Then users can just batch convert it with their applications whenever they feel/want to do it.<br />
(When they think theora is ready.)<br />
Could someone please look into this and tell me if this is possible and/or will be integrated?<br />
--[] 1 February 2008 <br />
<br />
You should read about the issues a bit before filling up the whole wiki with so many questions. Most of your questions, concerns and statements have already been thought about. In this case here, Xvid cannot be considered because it is a patented format. That means it's not a free format like Theora and Xiph cannot use it. Theora is currently now undergoing the last stages of beta to version 1.0 and quality is already at pair with Xvid. Also, users can't simply transcode from one video format to another; you lose quality everytime you do it, because most video formats are lossy.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:37, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Random access Ogg Vorbis decoder written in Java. ==<br />
<br />
And I am very glad that now you have an encoder written in Java. Can vorbis-java-1.0.0 also do the decoding?<br />
Is there an example of how to use vorbis-java decoder?<br />
If yes, can it seek, i.e. decode an Ogg Vorbis bitstream from a random position?<br />
--[[User:Sergey|Sergey]] 12:53, 9 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video ==<br />
Lagarith is a lossless video codec. Please support it, with supporting I mean that it can be used in the ogg and annodex containers as a native video format.<br />
--[] 4 May 2008 <br />
<br />
:There is also HuffYUV besides Lagarith. Also the new Dirac codec supports lostless compression, reportedly better than anything else. Agree, a lostless codec should be added. Just carefully select one of them ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 01:31, 4 May 2008 (PDT)</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=10146Talk:Main Page2009-04-01T11:57:00Z<p>Vmol: Removed my name from my previous account</p>
<hr />
<div>According to [[Special:Popularpages]], the various pages in the Demonstration section are the most visited parts of the wiki, so I moved that section to the top of the main page. --[[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 09:19, 26 April 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Work in Progress ==<br />
<br />
It's not clear on first view (to me at least) that<br />
[[Main Page#Work in Progress]] is a link to<br />
[[Work In Progress]] (as none of the other section headings<br />
are). Possibly it should be a normal heading with the link<br />
in a short text below (à la [[Main Page#Other software]]).<br />
<br />
[[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 05:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
You are free to fix that. It's a wiki after all -- [[User:Jmspeex|Jmspeex]] 19:22, 1 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
Done (just didn't want to trample all over the front page) -- [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 04:33, 2 February 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Lock This Page ==<br />
<br />
On all/most other wikis the Main Page is locked so only admins can edit it. Due to the amount of vandalism, I think the [[Main Page]] should be locked and all changes discussed here. --[[User:SonicChao|SonicChao]] 05:11, 27 August 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Done !<br />
<br />
== Paranoia / cdparanoia ==<br />
<br />
Why is there no listing under software of paranoia or cdparanoia? Also, there is no listing on the main xiph.org page. Is that software acknowlegded? --[[User:WhiteDragon|WhiteDragon]] 19:52, 9 September 2006 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Suggestion :-O ==<br />
First I want to congratulate you on the wonderful work being done. Thank you very much :-)<br />
Please allow anonymous edits (like wikipedia does) b'caus i'm too lazy to login :-)<br />
<br />
:I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the ton of hidden links I just culled has nothing to do with you... I can't speak for the people running Xiph but requiring a login reduces some of the flood of spam that shows up here, and Wikipedia has many more resources available to deal with it than this wiki does. [[User:Imalone|Imalone]] 06:06, 24 November 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Proposal for a developer section ==<br />
<br />
As more developers start to "get it" about how ultra cool Ogg / Vorbis / Theora / etc is, wouldn't it be great to have a wiki section devoted to helping these budding programmers along? eg: i've written some nice code i'd be happy to share. Could contain a programming FAQ, how-to's, and real code. Thoughts? [[User:Davec|Davec]] 13:44, 6 December 2006 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Why CamelCase? ==<br />
<br />
MediaWiki supports free links, why are most page titles in the CamelCase format? - [[User:Sikon|Sikon]] 05:34, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:CamelCase? I don't see what you mean. If you think something's wrong, you may go ahead and change it. That's what wikis are for.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 05:37, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
:[[WhatHappened|Historical reasons]]. The original wiki used software that only supported [http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CamelCase CamelCase]. For new pages it is fine to use free links. I suggest not renaming pages, as many of them have good search ranking. [[User:Andrel|Andrel]] 07:03, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
I see now. And thanks for the WhatHappened link, Andrel. I managed to recover two pages so far from web archive. I wonder if I'll savage it further.--[[User:Saoshyant|Saoshyant]] 08:28, 27 February 2007 (PST)<br />
<br />
== ICECast2 vs vBulletin ==<br />
<br />
Hi there,<br />
Fisrt let me thank you all the great work and the self performance over the ICECast streaming server<br />
<br />
I also Wonder if anyone had included ICECast directly into a vBulletin board having it worked from there on ..meaning enbable to use same username,permission and prefference from the database itself running on MySQL 5 having as if setting permission on for a usergroupe from there to enable them streaming out on your ICECast server and others can apply and yet just participate into the main forum itself<br />
<br />
I do have both running-up over my dedicated server now meanwhile if any would want to help me out creating like this hack or template am willing to give them all access for working over it <br />
can YOU imagine how friendly and powerful that ICECast would mean then<br />
<br />
hey give me a shout if willing to try it<br />
<br />
admin@gysmo.net<br />
<br />
== News ==<br />
<br />
Hi,<br />
<br />
I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items... Someone has made a graphical interface for ffmpeg2theora at http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Other-VIDEO-Tools/GFrontEnd-for-ffmpeg2theora.shtml<br />
<br />
I don't know the technical difficulties of building such a tool, but regardless, the ability for a common Windows user like myself to be able to just easily convert a proprietary file format to Ogg-Theora is really cool... I tested it out on the sample WMV file that came with this laptop, and the converted file worked great in Cortado... Of course, news about programs that allow one to record directly to Ogg-Theora would be even better, but this is still very important, imo... [[User:Brettz9|Brettz9]] 20:56, 4 July 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== .NET :-( ==<br />
<br />
> I would really strongly suggest adding this to your news items<br />
<br />
Check it out: > Requirements: .NET Framework 2.0<br />
<br />
Also, with 1.5 MiB size it's bigger than FFMPEG2THEORA itself (1.3 MiB after recompressing with UPX 3.0 --ultra-brute) - not that VERY good IMHO.<br />
<br />
: Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes? That's a drop in the bucket of most hard drives nowadays, no? And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too). My interest in seeing it announced is not how well it is implemented--if there are better alternatives let them be known--but that such a tool exists and it works (at least if you get the requirements).<br />
<br />
== MiB ||| .NET ==<br />
<br />
> Sorry, do you mean MB as in Megabytes?<br />
<br />
NO. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix]]<br />
<br />
> And .NET was already on my system for something I had downloaded earlier (not sure what, but maybe others may have it already too)<br />
<br />
I don't have .NET and don't like it :-( Finally, the important thing is the FFMPEG2THEOA core and it works perfectly for me without .NET ;-)<br />
<br />
== Link to Games in Demonstrations Section? ==<br />
<br />
Shouldn't there be a link to [[Games_that_use_Theora]] in the section with other demonstrations? Maybe there's not enough games listed on the page to warrant it?<br />
--[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 11:47, 27 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
:Yes. There's only two games listed right now. I'm pretty sure there's more out there. Sim9, can you help us listing more games?--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 11:56, 28 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
::I'm sure you're right, there ''has'' to be more than two. Theora (and Vorbis) is now by default included in the Torque game engine, so there must be a lot of games using it by now. I just polled the Torque community to see if they know of any to help us fill up the list with some successful integrations! --[[User:Sim9|Sim9]] 19:02, 29 October 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Add xvid it's opensource ==<br />
Please add xvid to choosable video format in ogv and others.<br />
It's an open source, mature codec and doesn't have encoder problems theora currently has.<br />
Embedding it makes possible to show off ogv files with a codec that shows the tru power of ogv.<br />
<br />
Please make it possible to put this in, so .ogv can be used immediatelly with xvid and vorbis/speex/flac to create a mature and temporary solution until theora 1.0 hits the digital streets.<br />
Then users can just batch convert it with their applications whenever they feel/want to do it.<br />
(When they think theora is ready.)<br />
Could someone please look into this and tell me if this is possible and/or will be integrated?<br />
--[] 1 February 2008 <br />
<br />
:XPete, you should read about the issues a bit before filling up the whole wiki with so many questions. Most of your questions, concerns and statements have already been thought about. In this case here, Xvid cannot be considered because it is a patented format. That means it's not a free format like Theora and Xiph cannot use it. Theora is currently now undergoing the last stages of beta to version 1.0 and quality is already at pair with Xvid. Also, users can't simply transcode from one video format to another; you lose quality everytime you do it, because most video formats are lossy.--[[User:Saoshyant|Ivo]] 12:37, 2 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Random access Ogg Vorbis decoder written in Java. ==<br />
<br />
And I am very glad that now you have an encoder written in Java. Can vorbis-java-1.0.0 also do the decoding?<br />
Is there an example of how to use vorbis-java decoder?<br />
If yes, can it seek, i.e. decode an Ogg Vorbis bitstream from a random position?<br />
--[[User:Sergey|Sergey]] 12:53, 9 February 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== For lossless video compression, make it possible to have Lagarith codec as video ==<br />
Lagarith is a lossless video codec. Please support it, with supporting I mean that it can be used in the ogg and annodex containers as a native video format.<br />
--[] 4 May 2008 <br />
<br />
:There is also HuffYUV besides Lagarith. Also the new Dirac codec supports lostless compression, reportedly better than anything else. Agree, a lostless codec should be added. Just carefully select one of them ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 01:31, 4 May 2008 (PDT)</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:TheoraTodo&diff=10145Talk:TheoraTodo2009-04-01T11:55:05Z<p>Vmol: Asjusted verb to right time</p>
<hr />
<div>== FFMPEG2THEORA ==<br />
<br />
"j^" wrote:<br />
<br />
* > is possible: ffmpeg2theora -f image2 frame%06d.ppm -o output.ogg)<br />
* > remove ffmpeg2theora section since the bugs / enhancements listed are in svn<br />
* > FFPMEG2THEORA - bug is fixed in svn, also trac.xiph.org would be a better place for bug reports<br />
<br />
Thanks. Is it supposed to work (undocumented) in 0.19 or will it be in 0.20 ?<br />
<br />
Doesn't work for me with PNG in 0.19 ... "frame%06d.ppm" is one file ? And what the "%" is supposed to mean ? Please release 0.20 soon and document the features and syntax ;-)<br />
<br />
'''ffmpeg2theora -f image2 *.png -o output.ogg''' -> Failure <br />
<br />
Is / will be PNG (and BMP) supported or only PPM ?<br />
<br />
[[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 07:39, 2 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: Bugs not fixed in 0.20, now 0.21 is out, will retest [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:56, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== Lossless compression for Theora II ? ==<br />
<br />
Could theora II also have lossless compression integrated.<br />
<br />
For many people it is important, especially people who take their movies seriously. or when it matters to have no data loss. <br />
<br />
:You had asked this on [[Talk:Main_Page]] already. We now have:<br />
:* HuffYUV (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Lagarith (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Dirac lostless mode (BSD-like free, but not yet ready)<br />
:IMHO no need for Theora lostless. I suggest suspending this issue for a month or 2, then, when Theora 1.0 is out and Dirac is more mature, choose a preferred OGG lostless video codec ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:52, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Are these features okay for theora or not? ==<br />
<br />
Thank you for the open source codex theora with tools. <br />
It looks like there are a lot of features which is very good.<br />
However there is no variable frame rate support. <br />
<br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_codecs#Technical_details]<br />
<br />
Is there double buffering in the theora decoder?<br />
<br />
On blendernation there was an article where there was talked about <br />
double buffering added in a theora decoder, or something like that. <br />
(I'm not sure and haven't found the article on blendernation.)<br />
<br />
This was part of adding a video texture player in Blender: <br />
[http://www.blendernation.com/2008/11/07/bge-video-texture-player-integration/]<br />
<br />
When searching with google, there is no mentioning of double buffering in the theora decoder. <br />
<br />
Wat was interesting to read, <br />
with integrating double buffering in the blender video project. <br />
The cpu consumption was a lot lower.<br />
<br />
Are these things good ideas for the theora project?</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:TheoraTodo&diff=10144Talk:TheoraTodo2009-03-31T14:16:41Z<p>Vmol: /* Are these features okay for theora or not? */</p>
<hr />
<div>== FFMPEG2THEORA ==<br />
<br />
"j^" wrote:<br />
<br />
* > is possible: ffmpeg2theora -f image2 frame%06d.ppm -o output.ogg)<br />
* > remove ffmpeg2theora section since the bugs / enhancements listed are in svn<br />
* > FFPMEG2THEORA - bug is fixed in svn, also trac.xiph.org would be a better place for bug reports<br />
<br />
Thanks. Is it supposed to work (undocumented) in 0.19 or will it be in 0.20 ?<br />
<br />
Doesn't work for me with PNG in 0.19 ... "frame%06d.ppm" is one file ? And what the "%" is supposed to mean ? Please release 0.20 soon and document the features and syntax ;-)<br />
<br />
'''ffmpeg2theora -f image2 *.png -o output.ogg''' -> Failure <br />
<br />
Is / will be PNG (and BMP) supported or only PPM ?<br />
<br />
[[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 07:39, 2 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: Bugs not fixed in 0.20, now 0.21 is out, will retest [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:56, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== Lossless compression for Theora II ? ==<br />
<br />
Could theora II also have lossless compression integrated.<br />
<br />
For many people it is important, especially people who take their movies seriously. or when it matters to have no data loss. [[User:Xpete|Xpete]] <br />
<br />
:You had asked this on [[Talk:Main_Page]] already. We now have:<br />
:* HuffYUV (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Lagarith (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Dirac lostless mode (BSD-like free, but not yet ready)<br />
:IMHO no need for Theora lostless. I suggest suspending this issue for a month or 2, then, when Theora 1.0 is out and Dirac is more mature, choose a preferred OGG lostless video codec ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:52, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Are these features okay for theora or not? ==<br />
<br />
Thank you for the open source codex theora with tools. <br />
It looks like there are a lot of features which is very good.<br />
However there is no variable frame rate support. <br />
<br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_codecs#Technical_details]<br />
<br />
Is there double buffering in the theora decoder?<br />
<br />
On blendernation there was an article where there was talked about <br />
double buffering added in a theora decoder, or something like that. <br />
(I'm not sure and haven't found the article on blendernation.)<br />
<br />
This was part of adding a video texture player in Blender: <br />
[http://www.blendernation.com/2008/11/07/bge-video-texture-player-integration/]<br />
<br />
When searching with google, there is no mentioning of double buffering in the theora decoder. <br />
<br />
Wat is interesting to read, <br />
with integrating double buffering in the blender video project. <br />
The cpu consumption was a lot lower.<br />
<br />
Are these things good ideas for the theora project?</div>Vmolhttps://wiki.xiph.org/index.php?title=Talk:TheoraTodo&diff=10143Talk:TheoraTodo2009-03-31T14:14:37Z<p>Vmol: Mentioning two featuers</p>
<hr />
<div>== FFMPEG2THEORA ==<br />
<br />
"j^" wrote:<br />
<br />
* > is possible: ffmpeg2theora -f image2 frame%06d.ppm -o output.ogg)<br />
* > remove ffmpeg2theora section since the bugs / enhancements listed are in svn<br />
* > FFPMEG2THEORA - bug is fixed in svn, also trac.xiph.org would be a better place for bug reports<br />
<br />
Thanks. Is it supposed to work (undocumented) in 0.19 or will it be in 0.20 ?<br />
<br />
Doesn't work for me with PNG in 0.19 ... "frame%06d.ppm" is one file ? And what the "%" is supposed to mean ? Please release 0.20 soon and document the features and syntax ;-)<br />
<br />
'''ffmpeg2theora -f image2 *.png -o output.ogg''' -> Failure <br />
<br />
Is / will be PNG (and BMP) supported or only PPM ?<br />
<br />
[[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 07:39, 2 August 2007 (PDT)<br />
<br />
: Bugs not fixed in 0.20, now 0.21 is out, will retest [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:56, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== Lossless compression for Theora II ? ==<br />
<br />
Could theora II also have lossless compression integrated.<br />
<br />
For many people it is important, especially people who take their movies seriously. or when it matters to have no data loss. [[User:Xpete|Xpete]] <br />
<br />
:You had asked this on [[Talk:Main_Page]] already. We now have:<br />
:* HuffYUV (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Lagarith (free, but GPL'ed, no OGG support)<br />
:* Dirac lostless mode (BSD-like free, but not yet ready)<br />
:IMHO no need for Theora lostless. I suggest suspending this issue for a month or 2, then, when Theora 1.0 is out and Dirac is more mature, choose a preferred OGG lostless video codec ;-) [[User:DOS386|DOS386]] 21:52, 28 May 2008 (PDT)<br />
<br />
== Are these features okay for theora or not? ==<br />
<br />
Thank you for the open source codex theora with tools. <br />
However there is no variable framerate support. <br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_codecs#Technical_details]<br />
<br />
Is there double buffering in the theora decoder?<br />
<br />
On blendernation there was an article where there was talked about <br />
double buffering added in a theora decoder, or something like that. <br />
(I'm not sure and haven't found the article on blendernation.)<br />
<br />
This was part of adding a video texture player in Blender: <br />
[http://www.blendernation.com/2008/11/07/bge-video-texture-player-integration/]<br />
<br />
When searching with google, there is no mentioning of double buffering in the theora decoder. <br />
<br />
Wat is interesting to read, <br />
with integrating double buffering in the blender video project. <br />
The cpu consumption was a lot lower.</div>Vmol